The creeping influence of OzzyKP continues to spread...

[OzzyKP]

Uh, Sava, go to www.youthrights.org lots of youth there wanting to vote.

But why haven't you heard of this every day from kids storming embassies? Maybe cause this is brand new (ya know see how much traction women's suffrage had among women in the early 1850's). Movements take time to build. Believe me this is building.

As for "letting kids be kids" don't cling to a fantasy to advance your political objectives. Being young is no paradise. Poverty rates are much higher than for the rest of the population, and (for better or worse) the government spends far less on education and youth programs than for the elderly. Why? Because with the vote comes influence, that is how our system is set up. If you don't have the vote no one cares about you. Believe it or not, young people DO have wants and needs. To ignore them does harm to them.

[Zkribbler]

what's the difference between 16 and 15, or 15 and 14?

...or between 14 and 13? Or 13 and 12? Or 12 and 11? Or 11 and 10? Or 10 and 9? Or 9 and 8? Or 8 and 7? Or 7 and 6? Or 6 and 5? Or 5 and 4? Or 4 and 3? Or 3 and 2? Or 2 and 1?

Hey, this is fun!

[Jon Miller]

I wanted to vote when I was 14

JM

[Apocalypse]

I don't think kids should be put down for not protesting. They really don't have much resources to organize. They really don't protest about anything except to their parents or teachers.

One thing, I would really like to see it lowered to 16 because the old baby boomers are going to start being even more greedy about social security and these kids are going to start seeing quite a bit of cash taken out of their tiny pay checks.

[Sava]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Uh, Sava, go to www.youthrights.org lots of youth there wanting to vote.

But why haven't you heard of this every day from kids storming embassies? Maybe cause this is brand new (ya know see how much traction women's suffrage had among women in the early 1850's). Movements take time to build. Believe me this is building.

Wake me when it reaches half a percent of 14-17 year olds... I'm talking ACTIVE participation in the movement... m'kay. Not just... oh yeah, I'll click yes on this online poll.

As for "letting kids be kids" don't cling to a fantasy to advance your political objectives. Being young is no paradise. Poverty rates are much higher than for the rest of the population, and (for better or worse) the government spends far less on education and youth programs than for the elderly. Why? Because with the vote comes influence, that is how our system is set up. If you don't have the vote no one cares about you. Believe it or not, young people DO have wants and needs. To ignore them does harm to them.

I don't know what reality you are in. But people do everything for their kids. In fact, in the suburbs, we are basically held hostage to the school board and the tax increases year after year for education... which is not necessarily a bad thing. But still.

It seems to me, your issue is with poverty.

Why don't you get off your high horse with "youth rights" and start trying to help out poor people. Oh wait, you vote mainly right wing... correct? Libertarian... republican... whatever...

so you are basically screwing the same people you are trying to help

You can solve all the problems regarding poverty you are talking about by say... FOCUSING ON POVERTY.

duh

why this obsession with forcing maturity on kids?

I don't get it man... but... whatever.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I don't think kids should be put down for not protesting. They really don't have much resources to organize.

Yeah, it's not like kids are together for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week... and basically, have access to phones, the internet, email, etc...

I never even see any kids hanging out together or anything...

Kids have no ability to come into contact with each other or get organized to do anything at all

WHAT WAS I THINKING

GOD

I"M SUCH AN IDIOT

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
...or between 14 and 13? Or 13 and 12? Or 12 and 11? Or 11 and 10? Or 10 and 9? Or 9 and 8? Or 8 and 7? Or 7 and 6? Or 6 and 5? Or 5 and 4? Or 4 and 3? Or 3 and 2? Or 2 and 1?

Hey, this is fun!

Exactly, and this is what I meant by "slippery slope," but that probably isn't the right term.

The thing is, for issues like this, you need to draw an arbitrary line somewhere. So this simply isn't about a question about rights, but about the best place to draw such a line.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Sava


Yeah, it's not like kids are together for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week... and basically, have access to phones, the internet, email, etc...

I never even see any kids hanging out together or anything...

Kids have no ability to come into contact with each other or get organized to do anything at all

WHAT WAS I THINKING

GOD

I"M SUCH AN IDIOT

They do things on the internet. Much of their message boards are kinda complaining about issues that Ozzy cares about. That and sex really. Not that I have looked for something like 7 or 8 years now, but it's not like much has changed.

They hang out, but it's not independent really. They aren't really able to do much on their own aside from just in walking distance in neighborhoods.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
... the old baby boomers are going to start being even more greedy about social security...

Wanna know what my solution is to the Social Security problem? Tell the folks of my generation:

"Look, you know there's a temporary bulge in the demographics, and not enuf money is coming in to pay you guys what other generations have gotten in the past or will get in the future. So, each of you baby boomers can have your choice, either (a) retire at 70 with full benefits or (b) retire at 65 with 80% benefits. Either choice lets us balance the SS budget."

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Believe it or not, young people DO have wants and needs.

That's what their parents are there for. Some kids have bad parents or no parents. It's sad, but it's life. Any responsible parent takes their children's interests into account when they cast their ballots.

[OzzyKP]

Ya know Sava, when kids speak out people like you will say "oh look at the whiney brats, making a fuss, someone should ground them or give them a lollipop" but when they don't speak out then you claim they don't care.

Its a catch-22 with no way out.

"All our negros are happy where they are, they don't want or need equal rights."

"Uh, I do."

"Get 'em boys."

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
C. To the degree that kids do vote similarly to their parents, they do so later in life as well.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Wycoff
That's what their parents are there for. Some kids have bad parents or no parents. It's sad, but it's life. Any responsible parent takes their children's interests into account when they cast their ballots.

And any responsible husband took his wife's interests into account when casting his ballot 100 years ago.

Gimmie an argument that hasn't been tried and refuted decades ago.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Wanna know what my solution is to the Social Security problem? Tell the folks of my generation:

"Look, you know there's a temporary bulge in the demographics, and not enuf money is coming in to pay you guys what other generations have gotten in the past or will get in the future. So, each of you baby boomers can have your choice, either (a) retire at 70 with full benefits or (b) retire at 65 with 80% benefits. Either choice lets us balance the SS budget."

A wouldn't be popular with the young crowd either. It means people stay in the top jobs longer, and the younger folks can't move up in the ladder. This is why there isn't a major push to raise the retirement age more than just a couple years.

[Imran Siddiqui]

"All our negros are happy where they are, they don't want or need equal rights."

"Uh, I do."

"Get 'em boys."

There is quite an obvious difference between age and race & sex. The fact that everyone goes through minority age, while few people go through minority race and few people in power go/went through minority gender. Shouldn't it be more telling that these people have 'walked a mile in their shoes' for young people and have these laws?