The creeping influence of OzzyKP continues to spread...

[Drake Tungsten]

Admittedly, it's an out of left field topic, but about two years ago I was first presented with the idea that the age restriction on voting should be lifted. It sounds absurd at first blush, but as DJW explains it's surprisingly hard to refute. As he notes, there do seem to be "Burkean caution" type reasons for concern here, but this happens to be an issue where such concerns could be easily met: Let 17 year-olds vote and see if anything awful happens, then try for 16 year-olds, then 15, etc., etc., etc.

At any rate, it's neither the most pressing cause nor do I see a ton of political feasibility here, but having thought about this on-and-off for a while, I'm now all for letting children vote. Let me add to what's in DJW's post one positive argument: As it happens right now, the youngest cohort of legal voters tend to be people with an awful lot of instability in their lives -- going off to college or first jobs, etc. That's a situation that's not conducive to voting and, accordingly, turnout is low for the youngest voters. But forming the habit of non-voting tends to breed further non-voting in the future. Sub-18 people tend to have a lot more stability in their lives than do 18-25 year-olds and it would therefore probably be easier to inculcate habits of democratic participation if you dropped the age limit.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/27883

No mention of Ozzy or his group, but some exposure for his cause on a big-time blog. Congrats.

[Spiffor]

The youth organization of the French Communist Party (to which I belong) supports setting the voting age at 16

[MRT144]

how many votes for spongebob will there be?

[OzzyKP]

About fricken time Matt makes a post about it.

I've known him since high school.

We don't keep in touch though, so he might not remember who I am, but its good to see him speaking out on this issue. Thanks for pointing this out to me.

[Berzerker]

cant argue with the logic

except for one thing, parents who dont try to brainwash their kids will be getting outvoted by parents who do. Delaying the vote gives young people more time to open their eyes.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Berzerker
cant argue with the logic

except for one thing, parents who dont try to brainwash their kids will be getting outvoted by parents who do. Delaying the vote gives young people more time to open their eyes.

Indeed.

[Apocalypse]

Not every kid follows their parents though.

[Urban Ranger]

It is a slippery slope argument.

[Berzerker]

what's further down the slope?

Not every kid follows their parents? So, no kids follow their parents? The obvious fact remains: parents who dont tell their kids how to vote will be outvoted by parents who do tell their kids how to vote. And since these people have decided my freedom should be voted on, I'm not inclined to applaud their kids joining them in the ballot booth.

[Zkribbler]

The problem with letting teenagers vote is that their minds have not yet fully developed an appreciation for the consequences of their actions. This is why they tend to be damn brave soldiers and dangerously bad drivers.

[OzzyKP]

A. Coercing votes is already illegal.
B. What makes you think the kids would just blindly listen to their parents? (don't parents always complain that their kids never listen to them?)
C. To the degree that kids do vote similarly to their parents, they do so later in life as well.
D. This problem can and does already exist between strong-willed individuals and their weak-willed or apathetic spouses.

[Sava]

My complaint is that there are already too many stupid people.... why expand the process to include kids, who are even more ignorant and stupid?

If there isn't going to be any real progress or change made... almost... culturally I guess to how our society view politics, information, etc... I feel we should be restricting the voting process... not including more people, like kids.

If anything, I say keep things the way they are. I don't see any good reason to lower the age. Are you going to lower the age of consent (legal contracts and such) from 18 to 17, also? So kids will able to get credit cards and enter into any legal contract?

IMO, it's wrong to just lower the voting age. If we are going to say, as a society, that kids are ready for more resposibilities... then fine... let's do it across the board.

But why? Why this rush to give kids more responsibility? More say, more power, more worries.

Why not let kids be kids for longer?

Once you start doing all this stuff, there is really no going back.

I enjoyed being a kid... not having to worry about anything until I was 18.

But a lot of people seem hell bent on forcing maturity on kids at an earlier age. I don't know why. But I disagree with it.

And I don't care who it would benefit... democrats, repukes... the "left" or "right"... it doesn't matter to me... it's not about the politics.

But the interesting thing is... you don't see this "movement" coming from the kids. You don't see the kids (14-17) calling for the right to vote. They don't care. Which proves my point. If they don't want it enough to fight for it. Why should it be given to them? What will the end result be? Just another apathetic segment of voters. Which is something this country really needs, right?

Because honestly... this movement... it is like, not even 1/1000th of 1% of kids. Sure, if you polled kids, I'm sure they would say they would like to vote. Of course, WHO DOESN"T LIKE MORE RIGHTS, huh? But they aren't out there protesting for the right to vote... they aren't writing Congress... they aren't lobbying in any way. They aren't doing jack**** about it.

Maybe if I saw kids crying out for the right to vote, I would change my mind. Until then, they care more about MTV and going to the mall and stuff. Not voting.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Berzerker
what's further down the slope?

No, the same argument applies to everything with an age limit, such as driving, drinking, age of concent, etc.

Besides, what's the difference between 16 and 15, or 15 and 14?

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
The problem with letting teenagers vote is that their minds have not yet fully developed an appreciation for the consequences of their actions. This is why they tend to be damn brave soldiers and dangerously bad drivers.

That's simply not true.

btw, how well did the well-educated, much older, and far more experienced adults running this country appreciate the consequences of invading Iraq? Yet we did, and the public of all ages voted to sanction that act in 2004.

Oh wait, that's not true, there is one age group that didn't sanction it, youth. Maybe youth are the only responsible voters out there.

Though to avoid partisanship, what about all those senior citizens who don't care about long term solvency of social security because they won't be around to see it? They just vote to protect their check and to hell with everyone else. Either through senility or selfishness. I fail to see how that is any better than the idea of teens voting.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Besides, what's the difference between 16 and 15, or 15 and 14?

SERIOUSLY OFFICER

WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?