Taliban on the run: Canada unleashes secret weapon

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Wezil


Yes, that is the official line.

As to A) - Read the articles. Same underlying principals (ie no girls in school, kill the heretics). So the names of those in power changed. *yawn*

So has the policy of allowing terrorist networks to operate freely.

Which is why Afghanistan got itself invaded in the first place.

[Kontiki]

Exactly. I didn't say the goal was to create a freedom-loving democracy, it's just to prevent the government from falling back into the hands of the same people you say we were there to remove in the first place.

[Wezil]

Most reports I read indicate 'we' only control pockets of the country and Afghanistan is rapidly regaining its position as a narco-state. Combined with the beliefs of those we apparently support I fail to see the long term advantage of this approach.

[Kontiki]

You're assuming the original premise for invading was because we were tired of the Taliban's poor human rights record or the production of opium. They harboured a group that plotted and executed the attacks on the US. They don't get to be in power any more. And instead of having a free hand in the country, they may just get blown away by some NATO troops if they press their luck. More realpolitik, less idealism.

[Wezil]

So we should continue to tolerate/support their current poor human rights record and production of opium?

That's worth the loss of Canadian life.

[notyoueither]

Part of the operations going on right now around Khandahar are specifically to get rid of those poppy fields.

And we're not tolerating a poor human rights record. When the case was being brought against the man who converted from Islam, there was an outcry and the government and courts found a way to back off.

We aren't going to be able to help Afghanistan or its people by abandoning them.

[notyoueither]

... and given that we (along with NATO allies) conquered the place, we have an obligation to stick around and put it back together.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Wezil
So we should continue to tolerate/support their current poor human rights record and production of opium?

Probably not, but that has nothing to do with whether or not NATO involvement should be deemed a failure.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by notyoueither
And we're not tolerating a poor human rights record. When the case was being brought against the man who converted from Islam, there was an outcry and the government and courts found a way to back off.

This was a good outcome? Declare the man insane so he won't be prosecuted?! What about the next guy?

[notyoueither]

The next guy, and all the people in the country and outside of it who would be affected if the country goes to hell, is why we need to stick around.

[notyoueither]

BTW, Wezil, I'm curious where you heard that girls aren't allowed to go to school now in Afghanistan? I'd read that that was not the case, but perhaps that has changed. I'd like to know if it has.

[Wezil]

I do believe it was one of the articles MM posted. Cdn soldiers were trying to change the village elders minds on the issue (but not trying too hard).

Sorry, I can provide no better reference than that.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Wezil

This was a good outcome? Declare the man insane so he won't be prosecuted?! What about the next guy?

He will be stoned to death in a tiny village no one knows or cares about, and we'll never know it happened.

I think we all agree this is bad. Changing it, however, requires either the passage of quite a bit of time or the use of force. The latter seems untenable (public reaction both here and there to the "arrogant western imperialists").

I don't see a happy solution.

-Arrian

[Wezil]

Originally posted by notyoueither
BTW, Wezil, I'm curious where you heard that girls aren't allowed to go to school now in Afghanistan? I'd read that that was not the case, but perhaps that has changed. I'd like to know if it has.

Found it. It was from the articles posted by MM (post #58).

And Greene has already learned that Kundalan's leaders, however much they welcome a school, will not allow the education of girls. Not even if a separate school is constructed.

[notyoueither]

OK, but that is in a 'lawless' region that is currently outside the control of the central government. The man speaking in that section lists the Taliban as a chief concern in accepting help from the Canadians.

It is precisely the fact that the central government is a secondary consideration to the Taliban for people in that area that we need to halp make a peace, and not just keep it. Not to mention that is an area where the poppies grow.