Is the US substantially "freer" than most of Western Europe?

[Gangerolf]

I don't think guns are an issue in Europe, at least not in the parts of Europe I know. It's not difficult to get a gun. It's easy. But the thing is no one really cares about guns. Ask somebody what they think about the gun ownership question and they'll probably reply with a "huh? gee, I dunno".

It seems that Americans think about guns more, and therefore they buy and use guns more often. And then you have it going.

[Alexander's Horse]

yes but what about my theory?

Another example

Some countries emphasise freedom to say anything

Other countries emphasise freedom from people saying things about you that aren't true

[Saras]

Originally posted by DanS
Belgium is corrupt? Do describe.

Google Belgium corruption helicopters

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
yes but what about my theory?

Another example

Some countries emphasise freedom to say anything

Other countries emphasise freedom from people saying things about you that aren't true

yeah but one is freedom, the other is not. restricting people from saying things about you is restricting freedom.

plus, you can have it both ways. i live in probably the most heavily armed country i nthe world (maybe israel is more heavily armed) and practically no one gets murdered here, with guns, or otherwise.

the last one i can remember was a guy who got stabbed and killed, but the guy who did the stabbing was from france, and that was in august.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


yeah but one is freedom, the other is not. restricting people from saying things about you is restricting freedom.

Not if people democratically choose to restrict or put conditions on free speech to prevent libel or abuse of the right.

This is big difference between the UK and the US - an episode of South Park could not be shown in the UK recently because Tom Cruise threatened suit. The libel laws are much stricter there. But you would hardly say the UK is not a free country.

[DanS]

Not if people democratically choose to restrict or put conditions on free speech to prevent libel or abuse of the right.

I rather see that as the tyranny of the majority, not democracy.

[Alexander's Horse]

well you would, wouldn't you

[DanS]

Well, the law won't protect you from fear of getting your ass shot, if you say something hateful...

[Footie Mad]

Contrary to popular belief Sweden is not one of the freer countries of Europe, but I'd rather be here than in Belarus.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Much ado about traditional freedoms of speech bearing arms etc.

I think whats missing from the discussion is the freedom of social mobility. How do the two stack up?

My guess is the US being markedly less socialistic is going to have more entrepenures but I am merely guessing.

[binTravkin]

#3 for me.

Example?

If you need a morning-after pill in Europe, you only need a few euros and you have one.
Noone can deny you birth control coz of his 'religious beliefs'.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

yeah, but here, the police can arrest an entire train of people (literally all 400 people on the train) and detain them for hours if they suspect that soccer hooligans are onboard.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Footie Mad
Contrary to popular belief Sweden is not one of the freer countries of Europe, but I'd rather be here than in Belarus.

sweden is a freedom from country, a nanny state, I've been there, people follow rules, they like them

korea is another one. They have big demonstrations but I cross the road here against the red walk light and people look shocked. I enjoy doing it too!

[Gangerolf]

What about Japan? Freer than America and Europe?

I have no idea. Just putting it out there.

[Gangerolf]

I've noticed in Central Europe (eg Germany, Czech, Austria) people almost always wait at crossings if there's a red light, even when there are no cars in sight! I remember in Vienna a random old lady told me off for crossing the road. (Random old ladies were in general really *****y in Vienna though. Maybe they all worked for the polizei. One beat me with an umbrella for taking a nap in the park. "Didn't you see that sign over there?!")

I think it's partly because you can get fined for jaywalking in those countries. But it could also be some kind of cultural thing. But it aint freedom

In Norway where I spend most of my time, people largely ignore red walk lights, and even stroll down the middle of the street, because they expect cars to stop for them. So by that measure Norway must be the freest place on the planet.