Is the US substantially "freer" than most of Western Europe?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I'm not sure, I think we have a healthy distrust for state too, I know that is definitely the case with the present government in the UK where Blair is deeply unpopular. But the institutions of the welfare state and the safety net we receive where we are protected - that is popular...

Yup, the Brits have a smart idea of liberalism. That's because you have understood John Stuart Mill, and the Yanks haven't

Mill warns that freedom should protect both from the abuses of the State as well as from the abuses of society at large. As a result, you tend to have a very healthy distrust for anything that could be construed as abusive leadership (such as the ID cards matter). However, I don't think the Brits are under the moronic mindset that makes them systematically opposed to whatever power the state has, and systematically supportive of whatever power private actors have. That's because you are aware that your freedom can be endangered by private actors too.

[Drake Tungsten]

In this board, we have several Yanks who are or were in East-Asia, proof that China, Japan or Korea are dream countries for Americans

I'm just here to pick up skills that will help me get a better job in America, the best goddamn country on earth.

[Seeker]

"True, though most of it is a remnant of WWII."

When will the European enemies of free speech get the memo that WW2 is over and you lost??

[Dis]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Hint: it's not "everyone".

What's attractive in the US is the dynamism of its society: things change quickly, it makes for interesting times. Besides, for an immigrant, it's a whole new world of opportunities, economic as well as social.

However, the US is definitely not the only country that attracts migrants, far from it. A poll conduced last year on several countries in the world showed that Canada was considered the best place to emigrate by most of the countries polled. Australia was well placed too. The US was usually the second or third country that people would advise to emigrate to, except in India and Israel where it still scored #1.

Besides, migrating to the US doesn't mean that you'll stay there your entire life. I know 5 people who left western Europe to work in the US. 3 of them have dropped their US job and came back to France for the quality of life. The other two hope they'll finally go back to London (the man got promoted to NY, and hated every minute of it in comparison to his time in London).

Also, migration goes both ways. Nobody here is claiming that everybody wants to migrate to Germany, yet I've found plenty of non-German westerners during my 3-year stay there. Heck, I even met two Americans there, which is an obvious proof that every Yank wants to migrate to germany In this board, we have several Yanks who are or were in East-Asia, proof that China, Japan or Korea are dream countries for Americans

Finally, migrating is a mindset, at least when you're a westerner and can afford a good quality of life at home. It has much to do with the ability to separate from one's roots, in order to go live a new life full of unknowns. Migrating is a particularly difficult move when you go to a place where the language is not your mother tongue, and where the culture is generally unkown to you. I have the feeling that Europeans are more adventurous than Yanks in this regard.

for me it's the grass is always greener syndrome.

my friend is (was) a german (though is a U.S. citizen now) and has no desire to live in germany. She loves america and has an american flag on her car. I'm an american who wants to live in germany. . I have no american flag on my car, and never will have one. I would go to germany if I thought I could, and had the job skills to find a job there.

but like I said. Every place always seems better than where you are at. I've been around the world, and it really wan't that great. Though I haven't actually been to germany. That's why I want to go.

[binTravkin]

Oh is it?

[binTravkin]

Another one

[Provost Harrison]

It's things like than bin that put me off every emigrating to the US...

[Drake Tungsten]

We don't want your kind.

[BeBMan]

Is that why you were leaving?

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
We don't want your kind.

Well everyone's a winner then

[binTravkin]

Is that why you were leaving?

No that's why they're putting up those rules..

Am actually quite amazed to see 16% people voting that 'Yes. Europe sucks when it comes to personal liberties.'
They must be the most informed ones..

[Lawrence of Arabia]

well i dont know about quality of life, especially in some parts of france. the part im most familiar with is la haute savoie/ la savoie, l'ain, that region there. the villages there are crappy, roads are poor, and in general its a depressing place. especially when you know that 30 minutes from thonon-les-bains is one of the worlds most prosperous places.

sucks for them that napoleon 3 didnt give la haute savoie to switzerland (or at least part of it, that was kinda the unwritten deal I think.) although geneva, and bern might have objected since its loaded with catholics. better to be french speakin catholics then german speaking prostestants i think.

[BeBMan]

Speaking about liberties, we don't have a speed limit on the Autobahn

[Seeker]

Of course you also threaten to arrest Englishmen who make fun of you for being nazi pigs and then try to lock them up to prove that you aren't nazi pigs anymore (or something)

[binTravkin]

ell i dont know about quality of life, especially in some parts of france. the part im most familiar with is la haute savoie/ la savoie, l'ain, that region there. the villages there are crappy, roads are poor, and in general its a depressing place. especially when you know that 30 minutes from thonon-les-bains is one of the worlds most prosperous places.

sucks for them that napoleon 3 didnt give la haute savoie to switzerland (or at least part of it, that was kinda the unwritten deal I think.) although geneva, and bern might have objected since its loaded with catholics. better to be french speakin catholics then german speaking prostestants i think.

Wait, we're talking about liberties not quality of life here, or am I mistaken?

Umm, maybe you're saying there are no areas in US, where roads are poor and people are relatively poor aswell?