10 Reasons why Gay Marriage is Wrong!!

[Ben Kenobi]

Again you raise the "harmful to thei physical being" argument again. People who practice safe sex are not doing any physical harm... and this applies to gays and heterosexual couples... so enough with that silly argument.

What silly argument? I never said anything about 'safe' sex, I said there are consequences associated with those who are homosexual, whether they are gay or lesbians. You are smoking something if you think that 'safe' sex is what always happens.

And you say better alternatives.... like what... being forced to try to love a member of the opposite sex just because you THINK that they have a choice?

No, I never said that. I say people have control over their own sexual desires. They can choose not to have sex at all.

Maybe the best alternative is for you to believe what you want, and they to believe what they want.. or it's just a matter of you trying to cram your views down other poeples throats.

If two people love each other.... how can that be a "bum" deal except in your own mind. Nobody is asking you to do it... They just want to make their own choices, that don't effect you in any fashion.

You ask of me to approve of gay marriage, and object strenously to my reasons for why I think gay marriage is a bad deal for society, and for the participants. I don't intend to restrict them from their choices, if they wish to have sex with each other, I am not going to go around and prevent them from doing so.

However, when they insist that they deserve to be treated the same way as all other married couples, then yes, that has an effect on everyone else. They are no longer 'making their own choices' that do not affect me. They are asking for recognition and support.

[Kontiki]

What's really sad is that you are incapable of thinking of any reasons why that may be other than they're gay.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


True. I have no right to go and bar people from indulging in harmful relationships. However, I do have a say when they wish to recieve government spousal support, just as anyone else.

So you're out there preventing the wifebeaters form getting their spousal dependent tax deduction?? Wow


Oh and I categorically reject that gay people that want to get married are in any way in a "harmful realtionship"

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi



For starters, you cut at least 20 years off your life, and the health consequences extend beyond std's to drug and alcohol abuse.



Then let the facts speak for themselves, and let people draw their own conclusions.

A call BS on that 20 year number.

As for drug and alcohol abuse, I would require proof of taht as well but I would suspect that you would find a lot of substance abusers among people who find that their very way of life is condemned by family friends and even strangers. I would also bet that gay people that are widely accepted by their family and friends would have no higher incidences of substance abuse than the heterosexual population.

So IMHO Ben, you should try to be more accepting and tolerant in the name of public health.

[Ben Kenobi]

Go him one better, Ming: of those under discussion here, the demographic group least likely to suffer from AIDS or STDS of any sort is...lesbians.

Couple that with Ben's observation that women are more committed to child-rearing than men, as evidenced by the far greater numbers of single mothers than single fathers.

Couple that with his observation that fathers have a far greater tendency to abandon their children, and that boys learn how to behave from their fathers.

Clearly, by Ben's own logic, if we want relationships in which (1) the adult partners don't do each other physical harm; (2) the adult partners evidence maximum commitment to child-rearing, and (3) the children don't risk exposure to negative role-models...well, there's really only one solution.

Ben Kenobi, advocate of lesbian parenting. Who'd have thunk it?

First off, you bit off a bit more then you could chew on your conclusions.

There are more ways to induce physical harm to each other then just through std's. And that applies to lesbians who suffer from alcoholism, as it applies to the husbands and wives. So if we believe that alcoholism is a bad thing for partners, and bad for the health of both, then it doesn't make sense to accept your first conclusion. The other is that most lesbians break up with each other much more often, along with the attendent consequences to childrearing and stability.

Secondly, it is not necessarily so that couples who marry and remain faithful to each other suffer std's. If you wait until marriage and both partners stay faithful to each other, then there should be no chance of getting an std. However, that's not the case with lesbians and herpes.

Thirdly, you are quite right to say that if you believe the only role for men is to abandon their children, then that would be a defense of only women taking care of their own kids. However, all I said is that there is a difference between men and women. I think that there are many positive roles for fathers, although society really doesn't say that very often.

Finally, your third point doesn't make much sense at all. If we want to give boys their own role model for what they should aspire to be, then I think both of their lesbian parents are not going to be able to provide them that example of what it is like to be a dad, and to take care of women.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
People convert from religions, they can choose not to be gay.

This is ridiculous on it's face, but let me ask you this: if you choose your religion, do you really believe in it? I mean aren't you part of a religion because you believe in it, not because you choose it.

[Ben Kenobi]

As for drug and alcohol abuse, I would require proof of taht as well

Why should I bother? I already provided one study, and you rejected that study as bull****.

If you are unprepared to at least examine the evidence, then I suggest you refrain from asking for more.

but I would suspect that you would find a lot of substance abusers among people who find that their very way of life is condemned by family friends and even strangers.

Already dealt with this trope.

I would also bet that gay people that are widely accepted by their family and friends would have no higher incidences of substance abuse than the heterosexual population.

Yes we should tolerate AIDS, because AIDS is just an accepted part of the swinging lifestyle. Tolerance to a certain group of people who die 20 years sooner then everyone else is hardly fair. Shouldn't we be taking steps to try to improve the situation rather then make it worse?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


You ask of me to approve of gay marriage, and object strenously to my reasons for why I think gay marriage is a bad deal for society, and for the participants. I don't intend to restrict them from their choices, if they wish to have sex with each other, I am not going to go around and prevent them from doing so.

I don't think anyone cares about your personal approval.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
However, when they insist that they deserve to be treated the same way as all other married couples, then yes, that has an effect on everyone else. They are no longer 'making their own choices' that do not affect me. They are asking for recognition and support.

Thats just silly.


recognition-- why shouldn't a homosexual couple be able to have their relationship be just as recognized as a homosexual one? Do you deny that homosexual relations last and endure for years??

SUPPORT-- this is about money: Tax deductions, pensions etc

a gay man could marry his female housekeeper or make any sort of marriage he wants for all sorts of stupid, financial or mercenary reasons and that wouldn't be scrutinized. They could get all the deductions/ benefits that you would deny a homosexual couple that truly share their lives.

[Arrian]

Are you seriously contending that being gay, in and of itself causes one to be more suseptible to drug and alcohol abuse?

-Arrian

[Ben Kenobi]

if you choose your religion, do you really believe in it? I mean aren't you part of a religion because you believe in it, not because you choose it.

Kid: It's one thing to reject the argument, but it's Mr. Fun who's making the argument by appealing to freedom of conscience. So if you don't think that makes much sense, hopefully Mr. Fun will eventually answer the questions posed to him.

As for religion, yes, you are part of a religion because you believe in the religion, but what would folks say if you believed in something and did not live what you said you believed?

It's really both, you choose to follow your religion, and you make the decision whether you believe what that religion teaches is more right then anything else. That's what I mean by choosing one over the other.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi





Yes we should tolerate AIDS, because AIDS is just an accepted part of the swinging lifestyle. Tolerance to a certain group of people who die 20 years sooner then everyone else is hardly fair. Shouldn't we be taking steps to try to improve the situation rather then make it worse?

Excuse me . . .. I thought we were talking about gay marriages-- I'll have to dig around since I thought I saw some studies that lesbian relationships were the longest of all types. Apparently its not being a "gay relationship" that makes things short lived . . . its MEN

[Arrian]

Yes we should tolerate AIDS, because AIDS is just an accepted part of the swinging lifestyle.

Holy ****ing ****. We're back to blaming AIDS on gays again.

Ben, this might be news to you but Heterosexuals get and trasmit AIDS too. Every gay person in the world could abstain from sex and it wouldn't get rid of AIDS. The problem can be attacked with more education/access to condoms and also more testing.

-Arrian

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Arrian
Are you seriously contending that being gay, in and of itself causes one to be more suseptible to drug and alcohol abuse?

-Arrian

THat appears to be what he is saying. Of course it was that he was gay that caused it . . . it couldn't have anything to so with the fact that his dad beat him up and kicked him out of the house saying theat the sight of him sickened him . . . Yay that stuff has no impact

[Ben Kenobi]

recognition-- why shouldn't a homosexual couple be able to have their relationship be just as recognized as a homosexual one? Do you deny that homosexual relations last and endure for years??

Ok, but now you cannot say that their decision has no impact on me and on the rest of society. We get to have a say whether society ought to recognise their relationships, and our opinion counts just as much as theirs.

SUPPORT-- this is about money: Tax deductions, pensions etc

a gay man could marry his female housekeeper or make any sort of marriage he wants for all sorts of stupid, financial or mercenary reasons and that wouldn't be scrutinized. They could get all the deductions/ benefits that you would deny a homosexual couple that truly share their lives.

And, are all marriages done for the reasons you cite? Are they all about financial, and mercenary reasons? Or are they about love and honour and trust and commitment? About a man and a woman coming together, where the two become one?

Society gets a good deal out of marriage between a man and a women, even though not all marriages work the way one hopes. However, we cannot say the same for gay marriage. This is why I think society is right to say, we are not going to recognise these relationships even as we permit them to occur.

[Arrian]

Well, those gays are just degenerates anyways, Flub. They're drunks, druggies, spreaders of disease and... they molest little kids too!

Oy.

-Arrian