"The dramatic wish of Romanians... was to be occupied by Americans, not Russians"

[Geronimo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "The dramatic wish of Romanians... was to be occupied by

Originally posted by Serb

Because they don't need them. They wanted Hitler to attack the USSR. It's a classical British scheme. But this time it didn't work, because dirty Stalin won this diplomatic game. Instead of war of Germany and other minions including Poland vs. USSR, Soviets got war of Germany vs. GB, France and Poland. Stalin won time and some buffer territory, however he couldn't know that Germans made a revolution in warfare, that Poland and France will fall so fast. Anyhow it was a diplomatic victory for USSR, important for its survival.

The trouble with this idea is that if it were true, France and GB would never have declared war on Germany. They would have either quietly allowed hitler to invade Poland or at best would have contented themselves with making angry diplomatic denunciations of Hitler's invasion of Poland while waiting for Hitler's war against the soviet union to play out before either France or GB would have declared war. Instead they both declared War against Germany at a time in which Germany hadn't acted militarily against either France or GB.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Up until the fall of Eastern Europe, East Germany had the 11th highest GDP (per person) in the world.

I'm having trouble coming up with a list shorter than 10 countries that I am quite certain would have had higher GDP per capita than east germany. Can you cite this or at least give a year in which this was the case?

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by Vince278






Its kind of difficult to claim any moral superiority when you are worse than what they were.

Are you saying that the soviet union behaved worse in Romania in Romanians in the Soviet Union?

Where did you get that Idea?

dozens of millions of inhabitants of the soviet union died, to defeat hitler, have more respect for them.

Considering how the soviet union was devastated and how they treated east germans or romanians, russians dont really seem particularly revengeful to me, abuses happened, but I cant really shed a tear for ww2 germans and romanians.

And that although I am ethnically mainly german.

try reading some pre world war 2 german anthropology books and see the kind of ideas germans of those times had.

I dont like this "hitler was evil but everybody was evil too", singling out nazis is biased, idea so many people have now. A friend told me in germany they recently showed a documentary about guernica which basically said it was not so bad we are not monsters.

sorry for the rant, this things bother me.

[Barnabas]

1987 encyclopedia britannica

gdp per capita

portugal
2.890 dollars

Greece
4.350 dollars

Spain
6.010

commie countries

east germany
12.430 dollars

czechoslovakia
10.140 dollars

Hungary
8.650 dollars

Bulgary
7.510

Poland
6.929

Romania
6.400

tito´s yugoslavia

6.540


of course most was outdated heavy industry, as we saw in the 90´s

[Barnabas]

crap, is it bulgaria right? and not bulgary. well, sorry

[Barnabas]

nothing, a mistake

[Serb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "The dramatic wish of Romanians... was to be occupied by

Originally posted by Geronimo


The trouble with this idea is that if it were true, France and GB would never have declared war on Germany. They would have either quietly allowed hitler to invade Poland or at best would have contented themselves with making angry diplomatic denunciations of Hitler's invasion of Poland while waiting for Hitler's war against the soviet union to play out before either France or GB would have declared war. Instead they both declared War against Germany at a time in which Germany hadn't acted militarily against either France or GB.

Few reasons:
Their policy was dumb from the beggining and Poland was a keystone of that dumb policy. They couldn't gave-up Poland esp. after guaranteeing her independence. They have greatly overestimated their own strength and greatly understimated Hitler's strength. Damn, they nearly DOW USSR over Finland while already being involved in war vs. Germany. What else? Have I said they were dumb?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
1987 encyclopedia britannica

gdp per capita

portugal
2.890 dollars

Greece
4.350 dollars

Spain
6.010

commie countries

east germany
12.430 dollars

czechoslovakia
10.140 dollars

Hungary
8.650 dollars

Bulgary
7.510

Poland
6.929

Romania
6.400

tito´s yugoslavia

6.540


of course most was outdated heavy industry, as we saw in the 90´s

This seems a much more reasonable assertion than the 11th highest GDP in the world stat given earlier in the thread.

[Barnabas]

I have not denied that east germany had the 11th highest GDP per capita , what do you mean?

in fact it sounds plausible to me

Looking at the encyclopaedia, searching for what I would consider to be the wealthiest countries I find that

the USA, switzerland, sweden, finland, japan, west germany, france are the only ones with higher gdp´s per capita than east germany.

maybe there are more countries than these, but I guess they are small countries like luxembourg


East germany had in 1987 a higher gdp per capita than the uk, australia, the netherlands or norway for example.

[notyoueither]

Strange numbers.

According to the OECD, GDP per person in PPP for 1985.

US         16,490
Canada     15,230
Norway     13,900
Luxembourg 13,430
Sweden     12,640
Denmark    12,240
Germany    12,180

How close to West Grmany was East germany?

[notyoueither]

Based on US dollar exchange rate

US        16,490
Norway    13,960
Canada    13,640
Sweden    12,010
Denmark   11,310
Finland   11,040
Japan     10,980
Germany   10,240
Australia 10,120

East Germany slides in there between West Germany and Australia?

[notyoueither]

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/62/52/35593366.pdf

[Barnabas]

For the same countries you mentioned I have

US 19.860
Norway 7.110
Canada 15.080
Sweden 15.690
Denmark 15.010
Finland 14.370
Japan 15.030
Germany west 14.460
Australia 10.900

All those numbers are for 1987, from Enc Britannica

East Germany GDP per capita in Nominal Dollars was 12.430


Anybody knows if norway had some economic crisis after 1985?

[notyoueither]

They don't say how the WP numbers were 'normalised', do they?

You might have to wait for Colon, but that number sounds like like horse hockey to me.

[Barnabas]

I have the actual encyclopedia in my bedroom, I am not taking it from a website.

It says,

Producto Nacional Bruto ( A precios corrientes del Mercado) xxxxxxx dlr EUA (xxxx dlr EUA per cápita)

so, the only info they give is it is nominal gdp.