I apologize to you on behalf of 'Muslims'

[Az]

There is Islamphobia on poly?

[Spiffor]

Oh yes.

The usual suspects notwithstanding, I have seen ordinary posters taking a systematic approach of giving bad traits to Muslims (not necessarily terror).
I'm thinking maily of Oerdin, who nearly always harps on Muslims when the opoortunity occurs (this thread is an exception, and I'm very glad of it). I'm also thinking of BK, whose hasty generalizations about Muslims are discreet, but here. I'm also thinking of Winston, who doesn't have a paticular history of bigotry -unlike what his opponents say- but who is on the brink of falling into utter Islamophobia. Of course, there's also DatajackFranit, our resident Italian who is sure that Europe is under Islamic rule.

More generally, 'Poly is a site which hosts many targets of the extremist Muslims (Israelis, Americans, Jews, Danes etc.), and who had only three "Muslims" until Moustafa arrived: two very secualr ones with Imran and Ramo, and an insane one with CharlesBHoff.
As a result, we barely get to see the Muslim side of things, and our perception of the reality of the "other side" is completely warped (it all comes from our perspective as nice little westerners*). Some of us will be absurdly apologetic of the Muslims, and many of us are bound to feel more and more dislike of the charicature we are seeing in the media.

For pretty much every other stigmatizable group (Americans, Jews, Christians, French, Chinese, Russians and the like), we have a few posters who are here to remind us that these groups are made of human people. When it comes to the French, I hope my continuous participation to 'Poly has reduced francophobia among our American posters.
In any case, I think most polytubbies are less likely to paint "stigmatizable" groups with a broad brush now than before they joined. That's because they have had sympathetized with human beings from other groups, or because a human being has gotten on their nerves. That's infinitely better than to treat the members of these other groups as abstractions.

I'd really like it if we had more actual Muslims on 'Poly, cause we could have a kind of exchange with human people, and we'd be less prone to consider Muslims in an abstract fashion. That's the first step toward mutual understanding.



*The Israelis among us have more contacts with Muslims than most of us. However, they are also in the place that is the central point of the clash of civs, so their specific view of Muslims definitely doesn't aply everywhere)

[Az]

With the possible exception of BK, I don't think that these people are islamophobic, as in having an irrational fear of muslims.

[Imran Siddiqui]

When it comes to the French, I hope my continuous participation to 'Poly has reduced francophobia among our American posters.

Then again, I really am not a Francophobe to begin with. Beautiful country and I'd like to visit again.

[Az]

what kind of a moron would be a francophobe - even as a stereotype, french people are ok.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Spiffor
More generally, 'Poly is a site which hosts many targets of the extremist Muslims (Israelis, Americans, Jews, Danes etc.), and who had only three "Muslims" until Moustafa arrived: two very secualr ones with Imran and Ramo, and an insane one with CharlesBHoff.

Actually, you forgot Ancyrean, a member from Turkey momentarily working in some Asian country. He's a reasonable guy

When it comes to the French, I hope my continuous participation to 'Poly has reduced francophobia among our American posters.

Yeah but now the rest of us fear you even more

[Chemical Ollie]

The first fatality has been claimed. One of the protestors in Beirut has died of injuries he got from the fire at the embassy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Az
With the possible exception of BK, I don't think that these people are islamophobic, as in having an irrational fear of muslims.

I think he's using "Islamophobic" as an all encompasing term including fear as well as hatred and unfair stereotyping (kind of like what the term "homophobia" has become).

[Az]

again, not true for the people he mentioned.

[Thorn]

WHY was I not mentioned, if I had my way..... well I'll just shut up now.....

[Winston]

Spiffor,

What specific basis do you have for presenting me as an example of the "clear Islamophobic streak" on 'Poly - more to the point, that I am "on the brink of falling into utter Islamophobia"?

I have said it before, I will not stand for people branding me with such broad and insulting terms!

I can be critical of Islam, but that is no basis for labelling me an Islamophobe. I think your kind is the one that's applying stigma to other people here.

[duke o' york]

I'm a francophile, so hopefully that will go some way to cancelling out any francophobes who may post here.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Winston
What specific basis do you have for presenting me as an example of the "clear Islamophobic streak" on 'Poly - more to the point, that I am "on the brink of falling into utter Islamophobia"?

The fact that you often paint Muslims with a broad brush. And never one that is flattering. Don't get me wrong: I never said you showed the same signs of hatred that can be seen in some other posters that I labeled the "usual suspects". However, you do show signs of generalizing about Muslims on the basis of their religion. And in a negative manner.

The fact that you said that a statement such as "the majority of Arabs want to bleed every drop of Jewish blood and then piss on it" was some neutral assessment of reality is a striking example (even though it's a statement you disagree with). If any of our American-bashers had said the same about the Americans wrt the Arabs, you'd have been the first to attack that poster (and maybe even to report him), and you'd have been right to do so.

I have said it before, I will not stand for people branding me with such broad and insulting terms!

Do as you wish. However, you have a strong online personality, and such a thing always comes with flak. That people get to criticize you is IMO a compliment to the fact that you aren't just another poster following the general direction

[Thorn]

Originally posted by Spiffor
"the majority of Arabs want to bleed every drop of Jewish blood and then piss on it"

too bad my sig is filled up thats a great quote....

[Winston]

Originally posted by Spiffor

The fact that you often paint Muslims with a broad brush. And never one that is flattering.

You are mistaken, and I think you should think twice before accusing other people of something as grave as this. I don't paint Muslims with a broader brush than other people. And if you take a look, for example, at the two threads on the current row over the cartoons, I have repeatedly posted balancing information on news as it is being reported, that some Muslims in Denmark and abroad make a great effort to distance themselves from the violent escalation of the situation. Is that the sign of an Islamophobe?

The fact that you said that a statement such as "the majority of Arabs want to bleed every drop of Jewish blood and then piss on it" was some neutral assessment of reality is a striking example (even though it's a statement you disagree with).

You twist the context of my categorization of that statement, as others have done before you. I don't see why it is so difficult to understand that if you have a problem with something, you take it on while it's being debated. You don't bring it up out of its proper context several weeks later, to prove a point that you didn't grasp the first time around, or to brand another poster as being some variety of a despicable human being.

I did not explicitly say that it was a neutral statement, that's a fabrication of yours. What I did do was oppose the notion that it was anti-Arab, to the extent of "deserving a prize". One poster said that the above statement should get a prize for being anti-Jewish and anti-Arab at the same time, and I contested that notion, and that he ought to have his head examined, or some such. I stand by that, and I will not have you or anyone else calling me infamous names on the basis of it. I hope I have made myself clear on this.