I apologize to you on behalf of 'Muslims'

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
And I note that this is a question of social acceptability - i see nothing in your post indicating a difference in treatment by the law.

Indeed. The law makes a point at treating all kinds of incitement to hatred the same, save for a very few extras when it comes to antisemitism (AFAIK, antisemitism is the only specific hatred that is mentioned by the law, all others hatreds being encompassed in broad terms, and we have a law that explicitely bans negationism toward the Shoah).

This is btw the reason why Muslim and Arabic associations can challenge Islamophobes -or people construed as such- to the courts. The laws can be used by every group that feels victim of hate speech.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Sandman, do you want legislation that bans mockery of religion?

No. Doesn't mean I don't expect discretion from newspaper editors.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Sandman


No. Doesn't mean I don't expect discretion from newspaper editors.

Somehow I would be scared if they did so. What regulations would you suggest that they should apply to to obtain such discretion ?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Its allowed because hate crime laws dont ban blasphemy against any religion, Judaism, christianity OR Islam.

They ban words that "provoke discrimination, hatred, or violence against a person or group of people... on account of their religion" (French Pleven Law, Law on the Freedom of the Press, chapter 4, article 24) or they limit free speech "by the right to inviolability of personal honor" (German Constitution [or Basic Law], Article 5.2; further bolstered by the primacy of human honor in Article 1 of the German Constitution).

Section 140 of the Denmark Criminal Code prohibits anyone from publicly ridiculing or insulting the dogmas of worship of any lawfully existing religious community in Denmark. Section 266b of the same criminalises the dissemination of statements or other information by which a group of people are threatened, insulted or degraded on account of their religion.

But, I don't think you get that this is far more than simple blasphemy.

save for a very few extras when it comes to antisemitism

Yes, especially the Gayssot Amendment to the Law of the Press, Art 4, Sec 24, which makes Holocaust denial a specific crime.

Denmark also has a law that bans holocaust denial.

If the hate crimes laws are not being enforced equally, thats wrong and i oppose it. I dont see how that justifies calls for censorship.

When one group can get censorship of offensive views but another cannot, that violates any principles of equality.

This is especially interesting since Section 140 of the Denmark Criminal Code and Section 266b of the same would seemingly apply. Yet, the prosecutor decided not to go forward, even though some of these pictures, at least, falls under the 'insulting' part.

In the US, we've decided in racial cases that even neutral laws must be struck down because they don't work in applicaiton. I think if this is going to be so unevenly applied, these hate speech laws must be struck down.

Now I'm not sure why it hasn't happened because of stuff published in the US (such as the horribly offensive "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam"), but I imagine part of it is because the US is clear that you can deny the holocaust, spread hatred, etc., and there is a feeling in Europe that hate speech legislation doesn't protect Muslims, but does for other groups.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Somehow I would be scared if they did so. What regulations would you suggest that they should apply to to obtain such discretion ?

No one is saying there must be laws, just that they should use a bit more sense in the future.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Now I'm not sure why it hasn't happened because of stuff published in the US (such as the horribly offensive "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam"), but I imagine part of it is because the US is clear that you can deny the holocaust, spread hatred, etc., and there is a feeling in Europe that hate speech legislation doesn't protect Muslims, but does for other groups.

You're a PC nut!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

****, better call a black guy a ****** .

[MrFun]

Or . . . . .



just call me a ******.

[Bill3000]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
****, better call a black guy a ****** .

...why isn't that word censored here?

[MrFun]

For whatever reason ****** is not censored.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Because they are slurs, not curse words.

[Vince278]

Both still not allowed on this site, which can be called positive self-censorship.

[Dinner]

I would like to expose the Imams living in Denmark who went on a tour of the middle east claiming westerners routinely defame Islam and attack Mohammed. For instance they claimed, falsely, that this picture was published in the Danish newspaper and that it depected the Islamic prophet Mohammed.



The reality is this picture is of the Frenchman, Jacques Barrot, who won the French pig squeeling contest in the town of re-sur-Baise, France, in the foothills of the Pyrenees. It does not depict any muslim and instead is a traditional village contest where people try to make noises like a pig and the person who makes the most realistic noises wins. I'm not sure I understand why there is such a contest but the fact remains that the Imans deliberately lied to sew hatred. In my mind that is as horrible as the neo-Nazis who claim other races or people who follow other religions are sub-human. It is wrong and it was designed to sew hatred.

How much better would it have been if these Imams had followed in the foot steps of Gandi or Martin Lurther King Jr? Those two leaders did not use violence but instead shamed the opposition by forcing common people to see the injustice which was occuring. The beat their enemies through the moral superiority of their words and of their cause.

[notyoueither]

The other side of the story...

That picture, and other images were sent as hate mail to 'his colleagues'.

[notyoueither]

If he were trying to illustrate a hostile environment to Muslims in Northern Europe, hate mail might serve as a prop.