I apologize to you on behalf of 'Muslims'

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by MrFun



Yeah -- it was all sunny and rosy between Irish Protestants and Irish Catholics in the 1990s, wasn't it?

There is no such thing as violent Christian extremists -- except for abortion clinic bombings and murders of abortion doctors.

It's true. Not even the troubles represented attempts at violent censorship.

By no means am I claiming that christians are peaceful. Just that In the last century and now they don't appear to use violence as a tool against being offended.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Geronimo



It's true. Not even the troubles represented attempts at violent censorship.

By no means am I claiming that christians are peaceful. Just that In the last century and now they don't appear to use violence as a tool against being offended.

You are right -- kind of, sort of.

Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, and others have no qualms in using violent-tinged language in expressing disgust towards certain groups of people, or individuals. Such as wishing Sharon to die from the stroke, or blaming hurricanes on gays, and so on . . . . .

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by MrFun


You are right -- kind of, sort of.

Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, and others have no qualms in using violent-tinged language in expressing disgust towards certain groups of people, or individuals. Such as wishing Sharon to die from the stroke, or blaming hurricanes on gays, and so on . . . . .

pretty much. I think scary christian fundies like the ones you named seem to usually believe that vengence for whatever slight they are in a bind about will be administered directly by their God. The muslim fundie equivalents to these guys on the other hand seem to be far more likely to insist that it is their and every other muslims individual duty to personally enact "God's revenge" for God. Christianity used to behave the same way and I think the current approach is an improvement. In fact, frankly I'd be much happier seeing muslims wishing nasty acts of God against the infidels than I am watching them mob and burn down embassies and send death threats to cartoonists.

[Az]

Truth? I don't see depicting Mohammed with a bomb on his head is the truth.

don't be purposefully obtuse - in the Nth time, the series of cartoons was there as a part of a debate on self-censorship by cartoonists and journalists on all themes Islam-related, due to threats and intimidations from muslims. THAT is the truth.

If they put cartoons such as Jesus molesting little kids or God cutting the heads of women off alongside - and not get an angry reaction from some Christian elements - I say it is spot on. As it stands now, it's just barely missed being a joke (or worse).

What the hell? It was about self-censorship vis a vis Islam, not christianity. There is little to no self-censorship vis a vis christianity.

You are right -- kind of, sort of.

Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps, and others have no qualms in using violent-tinged language in expressing disgust towards certain groups of people, or individuals. Such as wishing Sharon to die from the stroke, or blaming hurricanes on gays, and so on . . . . .

And that was stupid, but not violent.

[Winston]

It would seem that some people will believe, say, and do just about anything to empathize, understand and excuse the very violent reaction we're seeing to this.

I don't get it.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Az

Truth? I don't see depicting Mohammed with a bomb on his head is the truth.

don't be purposefully obtuse - in the Nth time, the series of cartoons was there as a part of a debate on self-censorship by cartoonists and journalists on all themes Islam-related, due to threats and intimidations from muslims. THAT is the truth.

Is it neccessary to beat someone up to have a debate about violence? The cartoons were a deliberate provocation.

If they put cartoons such as Jesus molesting little kids or God cutting the heads of women off alongside - and not get an angry reaction from some Christian elements - I say it is spot on. As it stands now, it's just barely missed being a joke (or worse).

What the hell? It was about self-censorship vis a vis Islam, not christianity. There is little to no self-censorship vis a vis christianity.

There is self-censorship vis a vis Christianity in the very same Jyllands-Posten it seems.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Winston
It would seem that some people will believe, say, and do just about anything to empathize, understand and excuse the very violent reaction we're seeing to this.

I don't get it.

Well, the fact that we don't band together and think alike when facing percieved threat to our customs is what makes us different from the idiots who burn embassies, no?

[lord of the mark]

Dear Moustafa

Thank you for posting. Dont think that your apology is wasted - it certainly is moving for many of us, and a reminder that there are many muslims who are a hope for the future, for that great civilization.

I understand why you post. I am a Jew, and we have a concept called "chillul hashem" - literally the profanation of the name (of G-d). when a Jew, especially an observant Jew, sins in public, this brings Torah into disrepute, and so is an even greater sin than were it commited in private. I presume Islam has some similar concept?

What has been happening in the last few days that is unfortunate, is not just that these actions have made things more uncomfortable for muslims as individuals (and again, as a Jew, I can identify with that) but that it has brought Islam, a religion with a great history and much spiritual creativity, into disrepute. Ironically, the crowds are doing just what they protest against the Danish newspapers for doing.

Please continue to post, so that we may all attain greater understanding.


Salaam Aleikum - Shalom Aleichem

[lord of the mark]

BTW

has anyone noticed - the worst protests, the most violent actions have been in

A. Damascus, where public protest doesnt happen without the consent of the govt
B. Beirut, where Syria has allies, and probably still a strong intelligence presence
C. The Palestinian territories, where the violence seems to have been led by Islamic Jihad, a group with ties to Syria and Iran.

Is it just possible that the most extreme violence is NOT spontaneous, but has been manipulated from Damascus and Teheran?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

. When it comes to the French, I hope my continuous participation to 'Poly has reduced francophobia among our American posters.

BTW, ive just started reading Braudel's The Identity of France.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
BTW

has anyone noticed - the worst protests, the most violent actions have been in

A. Damascus, where public protest doesnt happen without the consent of the govt
B. Beirut, where Syria has allies, and probably still a strong intelligence presence
C. The Palestinian territories, where the violence seems to have been led by Islamic Jihad, a group with ties to Syria and Iran.

Is it just possible that the most extreme violence is NOT spontaneous, but has been manipulated from Damascus and Teheran?

one does wonder how they manage to have many such well stocked flag stores. I've heard that 4 additional cartoons were included by the imams on tour.

[Sandman]

They probably buy them off the internet.

[germanos]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
BTW

has anyone noticed - the worst protests, the most violent actions have been in

A. Damascus, where public protest doesnt happen without the consent of the govt
B. Beirut, where Syria has allies, and probably still a strong intelligence presence
C. The Palestinian territories, where the violence seems to have been led by Islamic Jihad, a group with ties to Syria and Iran.

Is it just possible that the most extreme violence is NOT spontaneous, but has been manipulated from Damascus and Teheran?

Tehran? maybe.
Damascus? Almost certainly. Probably finding a scapegoat to draw attention from Hariri's assasination.

[C0ckney]

damn right, i off to sell a job lot of danish flags on ebay

[germanos]

Originally posted by Whoha


one does wonder how they manage to have many such well stocked flag stores.

They DID sack two ambassies