Clash of civs, Pt.1: Denmark vs Islam

[Az]

I think Footie is on to something bigger. This is not as much about islam, clash of civs, as about the evolution of political cultures. The need for a deeper understanding of democratic norms.

Umm, if one civ has political culture A, and another has political culture B, ( for simplicity's sake ), won't an widespread argument which is based on the difference between A and B be a clash of civilizations? ( unless you are waiting for the tanks to roll and the suicide bombers to blast. )

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Az

I think Footie is on to something bigger. This is not as much about islam, clash of civs, as about the evolution of political cultures. The need for a deeper understanding of democratic norms.

Umm, if one civ has political culture A, and another has political culture B, ( for simplicity's sake ), won't an widespread argument which is based on the difference between A and B be a clash of civilizations? ( unless you are waiting for the tanks to roll and the suicide bombers to blast. )

Your simplification is the point. Political culture A (i may disagree with you what you have to say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it) , though originating in civilization Alpha, 1. Took a very long time to take root in civ alpha, and is not 100% even there 2. Has expanded with varying degrees of success to civs Beta and Gamma 3. Has begun to make footholds in civ delta. Political culture B, (I disagree with what you have to say, and want to kill you for it) not only is dominant in civ Delta, its still widespread in civs beta and gamma, its not 100% gone from civ alpha, and it was the dominant political culture in Civ alpha before a certain point in time. Ergo the key to understanding is not so much the substantive distinctions of Civ delta from Civ Alpha, as how to get Civ delta to follow the tragectory which the other civs have followed. You may call that a "clash of civs" if you will, though i find such a usage confusing.

[Az]

yeah, but this is meaningless. The fact that it took Alpha some time get to A doesn't matter Neither does the fact that alpha isn't 100% A-compatible. You might as well say that the US and the Nazis weren't at were because america had Nazi sympathizers. and no, I am not comparing noone to nazis.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Az
yeah, but this is meaningless. The fact that it took Alpha some time get to A doesn't matter Neither does the fact that alpha isn't 100% A-compatible. You might as well say that the US and the Nazis weren't at were because america had Nazi sympathizers. and no, I am not comparing noone to nazis.

The US and the Nazis were at war. If one were saying Anglo-saxon civilization was at war with Teutonic civilization, those issues would have been relevant.

[Az]

A)That's escaping into semantics
B) I didn't say there is a war of civilization, since such a thing is very difficult to define, anyway. I am saying that there is a clash between values.

Again, I remind you that comparing to past times is irrelevant. Hell, the current "western civilization" and the 60s vs. of it would be in a clash. it just doesn't work like that.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Az
A)That's escaping into semantics
B) I didn't say there is a war of civilization, since such a thing is very difficult to define, anyway. I am saying that there is a clash between values.

Again, I remind you that comparing to past times is irrelevant. Hell, the current "western civilization" and the 60s vs. of it would be in a clash. it just doesn't work like that.

I am not going to pursue this at this time.

I still disagree though.

[Az]

[Winston]

The Danish government has launched a "media offensive" directed toward ordinary Arab citizens, alongside the ongoing diplomatic efforts to ease the crisis with the Muslim world. The Prime Minister gave an interview with the TV station al-Arabia, in which he descibed the importance of freedom of speech and of the press in Danish society, and how at the same time, the respect for people's religious sentiments is strong among the Danes. He attempted to explain the position of the government in relation to individual citizens and individual enterprises such as newspapers.

Also today, some or all of the drawings have been reprinted in large newspapers in other European countries, among them France, Germany, Italy, Holland, Spain and Iceland. Some Danish politicians see this as a crucial development toward easing some of the pressure that Denmark is experiencing.

Kudos to the European newspapers who have done reprints, thereby both informing their readers on the core matter of the crisis - and also rallying behind the right to free speech.

[Richelieu]

Also today, some or all of the drawings have been reprinted in large newspapers in other European countries, among them France, Germany, Italy, Holland, Spain and Iceland. Some Danish politicians see this as a crucial development toward easing some of the pressure that Denmark is experiencing.

Kudos to the European newspapers who have done reprints, thereby both informing their readers on the core matter of the crisis - and also rallying behind the right to free speech.

European Newspapers reprint the charicatures

[Adagio]

[Az]

Kudos to the European newspapers who have done reprints, thereby both informing their readers on the core matter of the crisis - and also rallying behind the right to free speech.

[lord of the mark]

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/economic/friedman/DivineHumor.htm

[Winston]

Again tonight, another telephonic bomb threat was made against the offices of Jyllands-Posten in Århus. The new threat was made half an hour ago, at 7:30 PM local time, from a public phone booth in Århus, and was received by the police emergency call centre.

Police have evacuated all 300 employees from the offices who have been brought to called in buses and a nearby church. Police is conducting a search of the premises at this time.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Richelieu
European Newspapers reprint the charicatures

Seems the hysteria displayed by fanatics has actually spread the cartoons even more.

Freedom of the press

[Dinner]

It's great that other papers have reprinted these cartoons. I hope every paper in the civilized world reprints them so the extremists won't be able to maintain a boycott or single out any nation's citizens to be murdered. Freedom of the Press.