New study shows college students lack common skills

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher
You have to pay people more to work in Edmonton, why else would they work there?

As your own numbers show, which are higher than average, that's not a lot of money. At least, if you think it's a lot of money you've obviously got lower expectations than I do.

Those are minimums, dear.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

[Asher]

Oooo, the hourly wage rate increases with experience.

Here's a question: how much of that work is 40 hours a week, ~50 weeks a year?

What kind of benefits do you get?

That's nothing compared to what you can make with a compsci degree, nye. I don't even know why you are arguing this.

A friend of mine who interned at IBM 4 years ago, graduated 3 years ago still works at IBM in DB2 development for $78,000/year. 3 years after she graduated from the UofC. She started at $50,000.

Work that out to 40 hours a week/50 weeks a year, that's $39/hour and she's 25 years old. You can draw the extrapolation from there, I'm sure.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Those are minimums, dear.

For federal government construction projects, yes. In terms of average plumber and electrician wages, they are above average according to the Government of Canada's wage statistics.

[notyoueither]

uhmmm, that's straight time. Add overtime at time and a half or double.

Trades now, and more in the future, are going to be working as much as they like. 45, 50, 60 hours a week? No problem. There is an increasing need for them, and a decreasing pool of people to do them compared to overall population.

Union benes are farily good, I am led to understand.

University is not the only way to a comfortable lifestyle, and people who chose not to go to university are no less valuable.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

For federal government construction projects, yes. In terms of average plumber and electrician wages, they are above average according to the Government of Canada's wage statistics.

That's what they have to pay to get competent trades to build things for them.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Asher
Oooo, the hourly wage rate increases with experience.

Here's a question: how much of that work is 40 hours a week, ~50 weeks a year?

What kind of benefits do you get?

That's nothing compared to what you can make with a compsci degree, nye. I don't even know why you are arguing this.

A friend of mine who interned at IBM 4 years ago, graduated 3 years ago still works at IBM in DB2 development for $78,000/year. 3 years after she graduated from the UofC. She started at $50,000.

Work that out to 40 hours a week/50 weeks a year, that's $39/hour and she's 25 years old. You can draw the extrapolation from there, I'm sure.

just wait until they outsource her job to India... or maybe they will give the work to interns... or maybe they will get all they can out of her, can her, and then hire some more recent grads...

that's the way it works in that business

a friend of mine owns his own consulting business...

he dropped out of college

he makes 7+ figures now

he also said I can have a job any time I want... I just have to learn unix based systems first

and I have to move to texas...

meh

[Asher]

University is not the only way to a comfortable lifestyle, and people who chose not to go to university are no less valuable.

You're resorting to strawmen, just like the other arts graduates I mocked earlier.

No one is saying they're "less valuable" (except in an obvious economic sense), nor that they can't live a comfortable lifestyle without university.

Just that your chances of earning more money are better with a real degree, is all. It's a simple statement.

[notyoueither]

And it's a bull**** statement.

Someone who goes through compsci is very possibly going to end up at $12 an hour at HP's call centre.

A degree is no measure of worth or value.

A person out in the cold building and fixing things is.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sava
just wait until they outsource her job to India... or maybe they will give the work to interns... or maybe they will get all they can out of her, can her, and then hire some more recent grads...

that's the way it works in that business

IBM does not outsource development jobs to India, they outsource L1 support and callcenters and some research positions. They did a trial outsourcing run with parts of AIX, moving the AIX kernel development to India but it was a miserable failure...and Austin is now the development center for the kernel again.

Development outsourcing was a fad for a bit, but if you look at studies of it most of the development outsourcings were failures. Commodities get outsourced, and as long as you're not a commodity, you're safe.

[Sava]

Originally posted by notyoueither

Someone who goes through compsci is very possibly going to end up at $12 an hour at HP's call centre.

A degree is no measure of worth or value.

QFT

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
And it's a bull**** statement.

Someone who goes through compsci is very possibly going to end up at $12 an hour at HP's call centre.

A dgree is no measure of worth or value.

A person out in the cold building and fixing things is.

On average, a computer science degree holder will make more than a person with just a high school diploma or some other trade certification. That much is common sense and an observable fact time and time again when they publish starting salary studies.

Some people taking computer science aren't cut out for it and may end up doing trivial things in call centers (Sava comes to mind, but he was bright enough to jump ship when he found he didn't have a passion for it). Those that aren't can use the paper to get into interviews where they can prove themselves and obtain a nice position.

I won't lie -- a lot of people I knew got help desk jobs for their internship. They paid only ~$15/hour or so, too. But those were the "dumb" kids, or the ones who entered compsci (ironically) not because of a passion or skill in it, but because they were told compsci was a good way to make money in 2000-2001.

[Asher]

By the way, computer science enrollment is dropping steadily each year, and the number of jobs for computer science graduates continues to rise. Good times.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Asher

IBM does not outsource development jobs to India, they outsource L1 support and callcenters and some research positions. They did a trial outsourcing run with parts of AIX, moving the AIX kernel development to India but it was a miserable failure...and Austin is now the development center for the kernel again.

Development outsourcing was a fad for a bit, but if you look at studies of it most of the development outsourcings were failures. Commodities get outsourced, and as long as you're not a commodity, you're safe.

If you're not doing something that some intern or some recent grad or developer in India can't do... then you're not safe.

[Asher]

Bottom line before I go to bed: If you have the means, university will help you. It's good to have.

I'm not saying you'll die without a degree, or you can't live comfortably without a degree, but statistics show with a degree you'll simply make more money. It's that simple.