New study shows college students lack common skills

[Dis]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


I heard that plumbers make loads more than college grads. Is that true?

I'm sure they make more than a majority of them. But the work sucks. I did maintenance work in the past. Great pay. But I loathed the job, and quit with no notice. . I need something a little more intellectually stimulating (and working with a majority of women now is stimulating me as well). If I have to snake another drain, I'll go insane.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Dis
I'm sure they make more than a majority of them. But the work sucks. I did maintenance work in the past. Great pay. But I loathed the job, and quit with no notice. . I need something a little more intellectually stimulating (and working with a majority of women now is stimulating me as well). If I have to snake another drain, I'll go insane.

You can always get yourself a college degree. A lot of of peole I know have done master's degrees part time. I don't see why you can't do a bachelor's the same way as well.

[Dis]

I've been meaning to do that...

actually it could answer the problem I have in the other thread. boredom. maybe I'll do that...

[Urban Ranger]

Kill two birds with one stone

And you can meet some hot babes

[Sikander]

Originally posted by GePap
I find it disturbing that the article bemoans the low level of literacy amongst college grads and then states that its great that college grads are more literate than those who did not, meaning of course that the situation amongst those graduating from High School must be attrocious.

The survey showed a strong relationship between analytic coursework and literacy. Students in two-year and four-year schools scored higher when they took classes that challenged them to apply theories to practical problems or weigh competing arguments.

This statement more than anything shows why Universities must remain bastions of the liberal education model, instead of just bieng trade schools whose sole purpose is passing on job skills.

I'm not sure it shows this, it could simply be that 4 year institutions get the pick of the students. Of course I agree that Universities should be where our best students go, but they don't have enough good material to work with. Some should be closed (or at least have their government funding cut) while we shore up our K-12 education system. The two year institutions are great because they appeal to a lot of different groups of people. Whether they are being used by adults who want to continue their educations while remaining employed and supporting their families, or used by younger people to help them prepare for University level work (often in lieu of decent instruction in high school), or simply being used by people who are curious about things and want to enrich their lives they provide an excellent value.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Asher
All you have to do is take a look at how many iBooks and PowerBooks there are in the arts/social sciences departments to understand that they lack common skills, such as making intelligent purchases.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Usually, as a former professor, I'm happy to jump on the today's-students-are-idiots bandwagon.

But I must say this: my parents, neither of whom were accountants or bankers or anything like that, assumed responsibility for teaching me about personal finance. They taught me how to balance a checkbook, how to calculate a tip in a restaurant, and how credit cards worked. That was true of everyone I knew. How these things became the province of schools I don't know (after all, it's "personal" finance), but I don't know of anyone who depended upon a school to learn them.

This is a failure of parenting.

Yes it is, but a lot what gets taught by parents is culturally defined and it was felt by the educational establishment that they needed to step in in order that those students who didn't receive this information at home wouldn't be further disadvantaged. Unfortunately many of these sorts of behaviors need to be demonstrated by role models (preferably at home) rather than simply outlined in the abstract. Indeed a lot of subcultures in the U.S. (e.g. Hillbillies) not only fail to teach these skills and values, but instead teach countervailing values.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Dis


I'm sure they make more than a majority of them. But the work sucks. I did maintenance work in the past. Great pay. But I loathed the job, and quit with no notice. . I need something a little more intellectually stimulating (and working with a majority of women now is stimulating me as well). If I have to snake another drain, I'll go insane.

Better to snake the occasional co-worker eh?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Usually, as a former professor, I'm happy to jump on the today's-students-are-idiots bandwagon.

But I must say this: my parents, neither of whom were accountants or bankers or anything like that, assumed responsibility for teaching me about personal finance. They taught me how to balance a checkbook, how to calculate a tip in a restaurant, and how credit cards worked. That was true of everyone I knew. How these things became the province of schools I don't know (after all, it's "personal" finance), but I don't know of anyone who depended upon a school to learn them.

This is a failure of parenting.

Problem is, people whose parents didn't teach such things will, unless taught by school, be unable to teach such things to their own kids.

That said, I've know a many young people who've ended up in economic difficulties due to poor self-discipline, but few who have due to lacking the skills to make a budget.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Patroklos
And to clear this up when I say "abandon the concept that everyone deserves a college education" I am not saying kick out the poor, I realize that there is problem there and am not really sure how to fix it.

Though I would start by putting a cap on the money that can be spent on athletics, and have those funds put into real scholarships.

Fix our public school system, then people wouldn't have to get a degree to make a good living anymore. Unfortunatley, that won't happen anytime soon because school boards don't want to anger parents by giving out too many bad grades.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Odin


Fix our public school system, then people wouldn't have to get a degree to make a good living anymore. Unfortunatley, that won't happen anytime soon because school boards don't want to anger parents by giving out too many bad grades.

Ad firms, accounting firms, coporate front offices are not going to hire high school grads, no matter how good the school is. The issue is not the school system, suck though it does. The issue is the shift in the economy away from the kinds of skilled and semi-skilled manufacturing that used to provide Good Union Jobs. Such jobs, which were abundant after WWII, provided a way for high school grads to earn a good living, own a house, buy a couple of cars every few years, and send their kids off to college. But those jobs are going, going, gone, and now the stark economic choice is either go to college or flip burgers (insert obligatory Philosophy major joke here). Our current, service-oriented, knowledge based economy increasingly only has room for college grads and the working poor. You can't blame someone for choosing college under those circumstances.

[Apocalypse]

The thing is, with a little people skills and hard work there are some people who are able to draw good salaries not too long out of high school. It's really only the lazy people who get left behind.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Patroklos


I bet most of the nation’s valedictorians would not have survived Oxford or any German university of 1890.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Before WW1 obliterated the priviledged class they had such a thing as a "gentleman's C" at most of the finer institutions in the English speaking world. I'm willing to bet the same held true in Germany. Of course if you weren't "the right sort of person" the real question would be whether you could endure the continual trashing - sometimes physically - by your social betters.

Robert Frost attended Dartmouth College for all of a few weeks. He left because he didn't believe that caneing - of himself by other students - was part of a quality education. What a Killjoy!

One of my girlfriends during my graduate school days worked in a university library. She was involved in a project to catalogue the older publications - including doctoral theses. She showed to me some of the doctoral theses accepted before the turn of the century. These guys got away with writing papers only one or two pages long! Original research was not necessary. A doctoral candidate could get away with reviewing the literature on a particular topic. Face it, the kind of rigor we associate with a good higher education today didn't exist in those days.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

Before WW1 obliterated the priviledged class they had such a thing as a "gentleman's C" at most of the finer institutions in the English speaking world.

The "Gentleman's C" is still around. A person who got one is in the White House right now.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Ad firms, accounting firms, coporate front offices are not going to hire high school grads, no matter how good the school is. The issue is not the school system, suck though it does. The issue is the shift in the economy away from the kinds of skilled and semi-skilled manufacturing that used to provide Good Union Jobs. Such jobs, which were abundant after WWII, provided a way for high school grads to earn a good living, own a house, buy a couple of cars every few years, and send their kids off to college. But those jobs are going, going, gone, and now the stark economic choice is either go to college or flip burgers (insert obligatory Philosophy major joke here). Our current, service-oriented, knowledge based economy increasingly only has room for college grads and the working poor. You can't blame someone for choosing college under those circumstances.

Great post . The economy has changed greatly and the physical labor jobs that used to earn good pay aren't there anymore. They've mostly been robot-ized. For decent jobs now, employers want workers who are more skilled.