So when do we invade Iran?

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
er no, unlike you, I've seen the specs

So have I, pre- and post revolution. They are a small shade of the former selves.

In any case, it is not necessary to occupy them to get the job done.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Vince278


So have I, pre- and post revolution. They are a small shade of the former selves.

In any case, it is not necessary to occupy them to get the job done.

Actually, it pretty much is necessary, if the job is to end Iran's nuclear ambitions or end the clerical regime.

As for the "specs", what exactly are the "specs" of the Iraqi insurgents and their arsenals? You know, they guys we have yet to crush, even thought they have basically nothing?

Also, "specs" don't mean as much when you take into account things like fighting in rugged terrain (most of Iran) or in urban areas (like a city of 14 Million like Tehran).

And none of this takes into account the most impotant question for the US, the US's ability to defend and maintain its fortces well equipped and supplied. Iraq would be the jump off point for a large invasion (only a large full invasion would work), and the US would probably face an insurgency in its rear areas, possibly disruption the supply chain. Fancy tanks without sufficient ammo or fuel are fancy bunkers.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Vince278


I'll place my bets on Israel any day.

from FAS:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-15.htm

Foreign Military Sales

The Eagle has been chosen by three foreign military customers to modernize their air forces. Japan has purchased and produces an air-to-air F-15 known as the F-15J. Israel has bought F-15A, B, and D aircraft from USAF inventories and is currently obtaining an air-to-ground version called the F-15I. Similarly, Saudi Arabia has purchased F-15C and D aircraft and acquired the air-to-ground F-15S.

In terms of air defenses, Israeli F-15D's vs Saudi F-15D's...

More importantly in terms of air defenses, SA has AWACS and an integrated air defense system, meaning that their fighters can be guided to intruders by sophisticated radar and a good command and control. Those support mechanism are the true power behind a strong air defense.

[Vince278]

The main reason I'd place my bets on Israel is their personnel are better trained and more highly motivated (probably among the best in the world). The quality of their equipment, though excellent, isn't as relevent as one would think. They are also masters of equipment modifications as well.

There are many examples of countries with good equipment and mediocre personnel. I wouldn't put Israel in this catagory (from my own experience).

[Vince278]

Originally posted by GePap
from FAS:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-15.htm

To quote from your own source:

Israel has bought F-15A, B, and D aircraft from USAF inventories and is currently obtaining an air-to-ground version called the F-15I. The two seat F-15I, known as the Thunder in Israel, incorporates new and unique weapons, avionics, electronic warfare, and communications capabilities that make it one of the most advanced F-15s.

F-15 production has been extended into 1999 by orders for 72 F-15S aircraft for Saudi Arabia. Peace Sun IX is an F-15 Foreign Military Sales production program, with development, to deliver 72 F-15S aircraft including support equipment, spares, and training to the Royal Saudi government. Saudi Arabia has purchased a total of 62 F-15C and D aircraft and later procured the F-15S, which is a two-seater aircraft based on the F-15E airframe, with downgraded avionics, downgraded LANTIRN pods, and a simplified Hughes APG-70 radar without computerised radar mapping.

Japan has purchased and produced a total of 223 air-to-air F-15 known as the F-15J, assembled in Japan from largely indigenously manufactured sub-assemblies and equipment. The Mitsubishi F-15J/DJ Eagle is the principal air superiority fighter operated by the JASDF. These differ from the F-15C/D with the deletion of sensitive ECM, radar warning, and nuclear delivery equipment.

Originally posted by GePap
More importantly in terms of air defenses, SA has AWACS and an integrated air defense system, meaning that their fighters can be guided to intruders by sophisticated radar and a good command and control. Those support mechanism are the true power behind a strong air defense.

The SA AWACS are also downgraded versions as well.

[Colon™]

I'd also mention that Israeli pilots are generally considered to be the world's finest.

[GePap]

F1-15I is a ground attack version. The F-15S is a trainer. As for the F-15J, that is a Japanese built version for thier home market. Selective bolding can take you only so far.

As for the AWACS, even "downgraded", it can spot and track F-15's (which are not stealth) and direct air defenses there. And of course SA continues to spend on ground electronics from American suppliers to upgrade its overall air defenses.

So no, the IDF can;t fly over SA without causing the greatest **** storm ever, even if the SA were not to make active attemtps to intercept IDF aircraft violating its airspace, and its defenses are some of the best in the world (what money can buy)

[PLATO]

Bull...The Israelis will payoff the Saudi Royal family and then swear they flew over Iraq.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by NeOmega


Iran has alot more than 240 bunkers along the Persian gulf, I am sure.

Oh, and those cruise missiles really are not as accurate as the pentagon wants everyone to believe.... worse, to plant them correctly, you need good intelligence, something the US does not have, especially in Iran. But you can see ships from the shores of Iran, you just need eyeballs.

And while we are on the topic of intelligence, let talk about Irans peeps on Amerian forces in the gulf region. Do you doubt for one minute, they don't know the location of every base, every bunker, even every secret project?

That's what you get fro trying to build bases with outsourcing to the Iraqi people.

What would the American Army in Iraq look like without the complacency of the Shiite population?

How would they gaurd their airbases and supply lines? And as the Iranian army started to pour over the fleeing, poorly trained and Iranian friendly shiite Iraqi army, how could America retaliate without blowing Iraq up to bits?


Who would support an invasion of Iran? Even with an "incident".

The only incident which could precipitate a world war would be a ruthless surprise attack by Iran, which could cost the US half her naval fleet, and half her air-power.

Young man, I can tell you have never been a part of our Military. I sent 33 + years of my life severing in and working for those people. You really don't understand how good they are.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by GePap


Neither are Israel's

Israel has their own block no. when we make their planes. We no longer give Israel old planes. They now are brand new off the line.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by GePap
Selective bolding can take you only so far.

As will selective reading (and being in a selective reality).

Originally posted by GePap
So no, the IDF can;t fly over SA without causing the greatest **** storm ever,

Forgotten the Osirak raid @1981 already?

Originally posted by GePap
even if the SA were not to make active attemtps to intercept IDF aircraft violating its airspace, and its defenses are some of the best in the world (what money can buy)

In potential but not in reality. Can you name some independant examples of the accomplishments of their AWACS and aircraft?

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Joseph
Young man, I can tell you have never been a part of our Military. I sent 33 + years of my life severing in and working for those people. You really don't understand how good they are.

Same here, though I retired after 20 years of service.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by GePap


Except Israel does not have the necessary air power to actually stop Iran's program.

And a miss is worse than a hit in this case, as any Israeli strike on Iran will make the area more volitile.

You can call it, calling up two hydras with one miss.

I'm going with you on this for this reason. I have an book Atlas of the World. On page 94 there is a map of the ME. It looks like Tel Aviv is just under a 1,000 mile from Tehran in a straight line. The max range of an F-15C with fuel tanks is 3656 miles. If you go with the tanks, you reduce bombs big time. If you drop the tanks range drops big time. Plus the F-15C is a fighter and not a bomber.
They also have the F-16 which is a bomber and a fighter.
But with 6 1,000 lbs bombs, the range is only 340 miles. You could drop 4 of the bombs, but than you would need a large number of F-16s and that would be much harder to hide. If they have a tanker, that would make it a lot eaiser.
But there another problem. If a large group of aircraft took off and headed to the Red Sea, every one is the area would hear them and Iran would soon know that they were coming. I suppect that Iran had more than one spies in the area.
I'm not saying they cannot do it, but is going to very hard for them.
Maybe we can give/sell them a carrier for a dollar or two.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by GePap


from FAS:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-15.htm

Foreign Military Sales

The Eagle has been chosen by three foreign military customers to modernize their air forces. Japan has purchased and produces an air-to-air F-15 known as the F-15J. Israel has bought F-15A, B, and D aircraft from USAF inventories and is currently obtaining an air-to-ground version called the F-15I. Similarly, Saudi Arabia has purchased F-15C and D aircraft and acquired the air-to-ground F-15S.

In terms of air defenses, Israeli F-15D's vs Saudi F-15D's...

More importantly in terms of air defenses, SA has AWACS and an integrated air defense system, meaning that their fighters can be guided to intruders by sophisticated radar and a good command and control. Those support mechanism are the true power behind a strong air defense.

I would not believed all of that crap. The F-15 has shot down every plane that has tried to take out the F-15. Until one is lost in battle I will go with the F-15.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Joseph
Young man, I can tell you have never been a part of our Military. I spent 33 + years of my life severing in and working for those people. You really don't understand how good they are.