Narnia movie

[BillyBud]

For those who are interested there is quite an in-depth discussion over at Amazon on the issue of "In what order the books should be read":

http://tinyurl.com/akwmp

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BillyBud


I had never read the books before seeing the movie.

From what I have seen this movie (and the others) can be enjoyed by young and old alike, no matter what a person's personal beliefs are...

This is a fantasy movie that delves into certain universal themes (such as good vs evil, heroism, betrayal, loyalty, sacrifice, etc) just like the LoTR movies do...

Each of us is free to interpret and/or draw from them what we will...

LOTR is more subtle, I think -though my knowledge of Narnia is limited - ISTR seeing a quote in which JRR Tolkien himself told CS Lewis that the Christian message in Narnia was too blatant.

And by Frodo's stigmata, thats good enough for me

[BustaMike]

I don't see why anyone should have a problem with the Christian themes either. I just thought the movie was bad and some of the people in the theater kind of worried me

[Seeker]

Magician's Nephew should've been first!

After all, it has the Deplorable Word.

[KrazyHorse]

Ooooh.

I'd forgotten about that.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
In terms of the storyline, Prince Caspian is 4th and TLW&W is second

In terms of publication date, TLW&W is first and Prince Caspian is second.

Oh yeah, I got Prince Caspian mixed up with The Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by BillyBud
For those who are interested there is quite an in-depth discussion over at Amazon on the issue of "In what order the books should be published":

http://tinyurl.com/akwmp

No, there is no controversy over what order the books were initially published in; there is a controversy in the order the books should be read in.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I don't know why people have a problem with a Christian message in Narnia but not LOTR.

Tolkien never intended to put christian messages or any message in LOTR.
He said he really disliked this kind of story telling and just wanted to tell a story, that may have parallels with other stories or, what he cals "thé story", but he never intended to do so.

Lewis on the other hand intended to put the christian message in his narnia books. Tolkien and Lewis disagreed on this point.

[Kuciwalker]

There's Christian allegory in LOTR?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
There's Christian allegory in LOTR?

Well, no. JRRT disliked allegory.

He did, however, describe LOTR as a "profoundly Catholic" work. It's not clear, to me at least, exactly what he meant with that, but you can certainly find hints at Christian imagery and ideas in it if you look for it.

[Seeker]

I think Tolkien 'doth protest too much' about allegory his books are loaded with it.

The Hobbit
Hobbits=English country squires from Devon
Shire= Tolkiens country boyhood home in south africa
'the Hobbit' goblins= WW1 germans ('goblins were always very good at making weapons and engines of death, as they are to this day')
Dwarves= Jews (they need to get redeemed by the christian hobbits)
Eagles= Americans, save the day at the end
Elves=French, decadent civilization with classic culture

LOTR
Hobbits on Quest= English soldiers WW2
Hobbits at home= same as 'the Hobbit'
Elves= The old destroyed order of European civilization that could never be again
Saruman= war profiteer, ideologue, souless industrialist
Wormtongue= English fascism, Appeasment, Fifth Column
Varda=Mary
Sauron=Dictatorship, Totalitarianism
Far Harad= Axis allies like Japan and Italy
Mountains of Mordor= Atlantic Wall
Britain appears in three seperate allegories referring to three phases of mythic history
1. Shire
2 Gondor Britain as fortress
3. Rohan the old mythic britain of anglo-saxons

Numenor, Valar, 'Men of the West'= America, a paradise in WW2 terms

The Enemy 'would never attack by sea, they had never been strong there'= britannia rules the waves

Scouring of the Shire= Industrialization, Social Change

Silmarillion
Eru= God the Father
Manwe, Tulkas= Archangel Michael
Mandos, Namo= Archangel Uriel
Orome= Archangel Gabriel
The Third Theme, with the Fate of Men, which even the valar do not know= the coming of Jesus
the valar= highest rank of angles, sephiroth
the maiar= lower ranks of angels
melkor/morgoth= lucifer/satan
rebellion in heaven obvious
fallen angels=balrogs
Elves= tolkiens invention, theoretically unfallen man
The strange reference to what happened to Men in the East before they met the eldar, which they 'never spoke of', save as a 'Shadow'=the Fall
Varda= early type of Mary
The Migration of the Tribes of Elves under their Patriarchs= the Migrations of the Tribes of Jews under their patriarchs
etc etc

[BillyBud]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


No, there is no controversy over what order the books were initially published in; there is a controversy in the order the books should be read in.

heheh

I just noticed that - my post has been edited - thanks for the heads-up.

[BillyBud]

Seeker:

You are so right about Tolkien's use of meaning within the Lord of the Rings.

While Tolkien was more subtle in his use of allegory and symbolism than Lewis, his book is full of interpretation and meaning about many things including Christianity.

For those who haven't done so, one should pick up a good biography of Tolkien. It really explains the man, his philosophy, and why he wrote LoTR, and the meanings he placed within the book.

Both Tolkien and Lewis were close friends. Lewis was an Athiest, and it was Tolkien who converted Lewis to Christianity...

One can see many, many parallels of the Lord of the Rings to things within the Bible...

However, the Lord of the Rings can also be understood on many different levels.

There are college courses that have been devoted to studying the Lord of the Rings...

Tolkien served in WWI. He lost many close friends in that war; he, himself, was badly wounded, and spent months in hospital. Even when he was in the trenches, Tolkien started work on the Lord of the Rings...

Later, he became a professor of Linquistics at Oxford. From 1937 to 1949, Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings. It took him 12 years to complete it. He wrote it during Hitler's rise to power, during the Battle of Britain, and all through WWII. Tolkien even had a son who fought in WWII.

Having served in one World War, and having lived through a second World War, one can see many, many parallels within his books about war, dictatorship, Britain, etc, etc...

Just as Hitler was coming into power in Germany, and as he was throwing his weight around in Europe, one can hear the words of Gandalf when he says, "The spirit of Sauron (war, Hitler, Germany, dictatorship, etc) is rising again..."

For example, here is one book that explores the spiritual side of the Lord of the Rings:

Power of the Ring: The Spiritual Vision of the Lord of the Rings

http://tinyurl.com/b74ym

[Last Conformist]

@Seeker: Had Tolkien still been alive, that post would have upset him.

[BillyBud]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



LOTR is more subtle, I think -though my knowledge of Narnia is limited - ISTR seeing a quote in which JRR Tolkien himself told CS Lewis that the Christian message in Narnia was too blatant.

And by Frodo's stigmata, thats good enough for me

Hi

You are right, Tolkien was more subtle, but Lewis was writing books for children, so I guess he had to be a bit more straight forward...

Still, I prefer to make up my own mind, and I have ordered Lewis' books, so I can read them for myself....

The fact that Lewis and Tolkien were close friends; the fact that both wrote classic books; means that both authors have something worth saying...

Also, I think that because all of the Chronicles of Narnia books are going to be made into movies, is another reason I want to read the books...

Cheers!