Islamic Revolution in Denmark!!

[Winston]

Sandman, I already told you to rest easy with your own blessed beliefs on the number of Muslims in Denmark. I'm the one who's here, but even then, I have no strong wish to publish a three-volume comprehensive study on the subject.

Plus I don't get the obsession with numbers of people belonging to a particular belief system. The important thing is how they manage to integrate themselves into society, a measure which I don't see as having any close relation to whom they happen to call God, or how many of them are here.

[Sandman]

Wikipedia must be wrong as well.

Call me crazy, but when politicians are claiming that there are more than twice the number of Muslims than there actually are, that's probably not a good sign. Apart from anything else, they'll conduct ineffective policies.

[Winston]

All right, in the secret hope of putting this matter to rest, here are some numbers obtained from Danmarks Statistik, Denmark's Central Statistical Bureau. They don't do statistics on people's religious persuasion, so we have to navigate indirectly to get some numbers for this.

All are per 1 January 2005.

Total population: 5,411,405

Immigrants & descendants (343,367 + 108,728): 452,095

Notice I started off by saying at least 450,000, which wasn't too far off. Except that I thought them to be from non-Western countries, whereas in reality this is the total number of immigrants and descendants (see reservations about this below).

In addition, there were 1,069 asylum seekers, but I think we can leave them out of the total without skewing anything too much.

Now, I ran up the numbers for immigrants and descendants from individual countries with a predominantly Muslim population. Those include a number of countries in Europe, Africa and Asia.

This gave me a total for 'Muslim' immigrants and descendants of

(180,919 + 85,028) = 265,947

which is 58.83% of the total number of immigrants and descendants (from all countries), compared to my original claim of 80% (of those from non-Western countries).

And 4.91% of the total population, compared to my original claim of 7%, and Sandman's of 2 or 3% whichever one he took the dearest liking to.. BlackCat takes the price for his approx. 5%

Now of course there are some uncertainties about these numbers. For one thing, it is unlikely that all people coming here from the countries I looked up are Muslims. On the other hand, some people from countries I didn't look up are bound to be.

And, most importantly, it would appear that descendants from 2nd generation immigrants with Danish citizenship are not counted towards the totals for descendants. People with the technical status of either 'temporary stay' or 'tolerated stay' are not included either.

Those categories would in my view account for another 0.5-1.0 percentage point, at a conservative estimate.

So much for the numbers obsession.

[Combat Ingrid]

Originally posted by Winston
I'd say more like 7%. We have at least 450,000 immigrants and descendants from non-Western countries, of which I'd wager no less than 80% are Muslims.

Of course we're still a ways behind Sweden, which I believe is going on 15 these days.

[Winston]

Yes. Dig up the old thread where I documented this, upon which you stunningly never commented again.

The debate was on immigrants, however, not Muslims per se.

[Winston]

Got it for you.

Actually, you did comment briefly, you just shrugged off my numbers like a true un-believer.

Post # 26 is one of the central ones.

[Combat Ingrid]

http://www.scb.se/statistik/_publikationer/BE0701_1950I02_BR_02_BE51ST0405.pdf

Ungefär en sjundedel, eller 16 procent, av Sveriges befolkning består
av personer med utländsk bakgrund, d.v.s. utrikes födda och
personer födda i Sverige med båda föräldrarna födda utomlands.
Därtill kommer personer födda i Sverige med en förälder född utomlands
och en förälder född i Sverige, vilka uppgår till 6 procent av
befolkningen.

Of course you will now claim that almost all these people are muslims, right?

[Winston]

No. I just widened the claim a little, in the good Liberal tradition, to stress the point and get people to take notice. Our argument back then was on immigrants, not Muslims.

Still, the point remains, you're much more Swedish than us in this matter.

BTW, 16% is not "ungefär" (approximately) 1/7, it's "ungefär" 1/6. And 22% is something else..

Edit: And I still can't get over your initial claim that "in Sweden we have only 1-5% Muslims, depending on how you count."

[Combat Ingrid]

Just admit that the "1" in "15" was a typo
About 5% of our population have their roots in a muslim country, how many of those that practice islam is impossible to say. I think the islamic association has around 100.000 members so we have at least 1% practicing muslims here.

[Winston]

Sure. 22% of your population of 9 million are immigrants and descendants (hey, that's more than 15%, whatta you know), and about 1 in 22 of those are proper Muslims.

:loony:

[Combat Ingrid]

Ok Winston, I admit it. Sweden is being totally overrun with muslims. And your estimate of 15% is probably much lower than the real value

[Winston]

No, I think it fits the real value just fine. I just found and posted above that around 60% of the immigrants and descendants in Denmark are from Muslim countries. Now, why should your numbers be radically different? 60% of 22% is 13.2%, which I'd certainly say qualifies as "going on 15" as I originally claimed.

Whether you're "being overrun" depends to a large extent on how you handle the matter of integrating all those people into society. A tremendous task, no doubt, but it will have to be done somehow, I believe, with a high degree of success if trouble is to be avoided. But I'll leave that to you...

[Gangerolf]

Muslims overrun Sweden, and at the same time every Swede on the planet seems to be moving to Oslo to wait tables and work at Clas Ohlson..

I see a trend here...

[Combat Ingrid]

Originally posted by Winston
Now, why should your numbers be radically different?

Because we have almost a million immigrants/descendants from Finland, Norway and Denmark? Unless you count them as muslim countries of course

[Winston]

Only wusses move to Sweden.

Oh, and the immigrant descendants who attempt to bypass our 24-year rule against forced, arranged marriages.