Rugby - Hands Off Black!

[finbar]

Bye bye, Eddie. Losing 22-24 to Wales just about seals his fate. It's hard to tell from only listening, but it sounded like the Wallabies back row, Chris Latham and Lote Tuquiri carried them, but couldn't carry them far enough. The pack? A penalty try awarded against them for continually collapsing. Enough said. It sounded like an entertaining match. Congrats to the Welsh.

[LDiCesare]

Well, indeed Eddie seems doomed.
On the bright side, France beat South Africa 26-20. This was a really very entertaining game to watch, one of the best I have seen for years. The opening minutes were of course particularly delightful for a Frenchman to watch, with an extraordinary Yannick Nyanga, a nice interception by Michalak thanks to a very good defense, and 15-0 after 15 minutes.
The Boks' lineout was so good that the French tried to avoid lineouts as much as possible, particularly in the second half. They kicked in-field rather than out.
The game was great because both teams were true to their style of play. The boks charging and charging, manageing two tries (the second one a very clean one), the French playing and defending with a furia they didn't show last week against Tongas ("comme des morts de faim"). Some tackles were awesome, on both sides, and the French jumped on the ball everytime they could. That they managed to win despite being inferior in both scrum and lineout is a real achievement. Bravo les bleus.
A note on the bok's fly half: At just twenty and 2 test matches, the lad looks quite good and promising.

[LDiCesare]

A bit of an analysis on France and South Africa.
This year they met thrice, one victory each and one draw, so that's pretty balanced.
The wins were always at home for both teams, and never did the teams play the best team they'd have on current form, though they were clear preparations for the world cup two years from now.
The French blooded Szarszewski and played Bruno when in last match against the Tonga, Ibanez showed he's still the best hooker we've got. I think Lievremont is also the better 8, but Laporte wanted to play Bonnaire who is better at lineout. We also lacked players like Laharrague and Betsen due to wounds.
The Boks on the other hand played a young scrummy and a young fly half. They probably learnt a lot yesterday, and it's quite possible that a more experienced pair would have let the boks win. But then I think Bruno or Ibanez, and Lievremont, would have contributed to a stronger French scrum (as it showed in the second half) and made a difference too.
All in all, both teams have nice days in front of them, particularly the boks if they can get a better pair of halves, or make these ones better.

[finbar]

It always promised to be a very interesting contest, potentially the best of the weekend. I couldn't find any coverage of it at all online! I couldn't even find score updates!

One thing about the Welsh win. I listened on after the finish of the match. There was a bit of hysteria developing - they'd taken a major SH scalp, they were now in the big league, etc. Only one of the commentators urged caution - they'd narrowly beaten a team, which, while gifted and dangerous in the backs, were impotent up front. I suspect the Boks and the Kiwis were the real tests.

[LDiCesare]

It always promised to be a very interesting contest, potentially the best of the weekend. I couldn't find any coverage of it at all online! I couldn't even find score updates!

You should have picked Nice when coming to Europe. That's almost Italy, but you could have seen the match.

One thing about the Welsh win. I listened on after the finish of the match. There was a bit of hysteria developing - they'd taken a major SH scalp, they were now in the big league, etc. Only one of the commentators urged caution - they'd narrowly beaten a team, which, while gifted and dangerous in the backs, were impotent up front.

Mmmm... Havak will certainly be surprised to hear such a thing. Welsh hysteric over a narrow win against a major team at an all-times low. They'll face a reality check in Twickeham.

[finbar]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

You should have picked Nice when coming to Europe. That's almost Italy, but you could have seen the match.

See the match ... see my car torched. Mmmmmm. The definition of good news and bad news.

Mmmm... Havak will certainly be surprised to hear such a thing. Welsh hysteric over a narrow win against a major team at an all-times low. They'll face a reality check in Twickeham.

Havak will be too busy chewing over his Leicester teammates punching each other's lights out. Must be some sort of record for clubmates to be red-carded in a Test match.

[ravagon]

I wasn't quite sure what to believe when I heard the Welsh had won.
Seeing that victory photo though clinches it. Look at the colour of their uniforms.
In a characteristically Welsh stuffup though they got the socks wrong, but, well, you can't have everything.

On a slightly more serious note, it's probably a little unfortunate that Eddie is going to get the can. IMHO his big mistake was supporting Gregan who should've been ousted some time ago. All of that nonsense about not considering retiring seems like more of a smokescreen to stay with it until he could go out on a high note, regardless of the consequences for the rest of the team.
Its just unfortunate that his likely replacements (Whattaker or Henjak?) now have so little experience at this level. Coming on with 5-10 minutes to go (as has been the case with most of their appearances) just isn't enough.
It could get worse before it gets better.

[ravagon]

Hmmm. I wonder whether I should point out to Havak who won the coach of the year award?
Or has he had enough bad news for one weekend? Decisions, decisions ...

[Havak]

find it weird that England fielded Tinfall and Noon when they had Smith and Barkley on the bench and never used them.

Smith was dropped from the squad totally before the Australia game. Robinson doesn’t seem to like centres who can attack as well as defend. Tindall had another nightmare killing move after move with really poor decisions – but Robinson will pick him for Wales in Feb I am sure.

JSD lasted forty minutes and saw sod all ball (it never got past Tindall in the first half). Another wasted chance for Sinbad.

but it sounded like the Wallabies back row, Chris Latham and Lote Tuquiri carried them, but couldn't carry them far enough.

I would say that is about right. Both men shone in a struggling outfit.

Rumour here is that Eddie will not be the only casualty – it seems the lynch mob wants Gregan gone as well (that does seem rather unfair).

The penalty try was gob smacking – that was not the most powerful welsh pack possible by any means. Baxter again. For years he has hoodwinked referees – they now seem wise to him. The lad cannot scrummage – and as for Dunning he has got to go. Play the young lads. They are very raw but they can’t be worse long term – can they?

Welsh hysteric over a narrow win against a major team at an all-times low. They'll face a reality check in Twickeham.

Some fans have already made themselves favourites for the world cup again (the Bok and NZ results totally forgotten).

That is Wales – the highs are very high and the lows are quick to follow and very low indeed. I nearly choked on my beer again as Welsh pundits started claiming they are favourites for twickers in February on the back of this ONE GAME.

Lets face it a piece of Shame Williams brilliance was needed to beat a team that was struggling to get any ball at all. It was a win and worth acknowledging – but perspective is needed. Only happy taff rugger fans seemingly don’t do perspective!

Havak will be too busy chewing over his Leicester teammates punching each other's lights out. Must be some sort of record for clubmates to be red-carded in a Test match.

And I’m delighted we have set another record.

I could not believe what I was seeing to be honest – rank stupidity. Although Michael Jones claim that they didn’t throw the first punch doesn’t hold up on video (the only shame is Tuilagi didn't land it on Cueto with his full force). Mind you Tigers did throw both the first and second punch it has to be admitted.

Looks like the Samoa skipper will be cited too - came in at the side and threw wild uppercuts at all and sundry.

Seeing that victory photo though clinches it. Look at the colour of their uniforms.

Nice one.

For the uninitiated it is the 125th anniversary of the Welsh Rugby Union this year (and incidentally Tigers also) and they played in the commemorative strip that was the same colour as their first ever strip – that is BLACK. Tigers original strip was also black. I’m sure there is a significance to that but it escapes me for now…

I wonder whether I should point out to Havak who won the coach of the year award?

Was it Andy Robinson?

Lets face it his team has improved more than Graham’s this year?

Ironic that this was announced the weekend where SCOTLAND of all teams closed down the ABs for an entire half? I thought the Scots did really well considering?

Credit where it is due though – Graham has addressed a weakness the ABs had (the pack) and made it a strength. Fair play to him for that. He can still be a **** at times – the training ground filming nonsense proved that. RFU ‘spies’ my **** Graham.

I thought the France-Bok game was fantastic for neutrals. France seem to have an endless production line of quality loose forwards these days? And Thomas had a great game at full back. I think France still need a real quality Fly half though (I can safely say that now tamerlin has disappeared)?

[finbar]

It's interesting that several Wallabies have come out in support of Eddie. Two in particular - Lote Tuquiri and Brendan Cannon - have also said there's no one to replace him. And they play (or, in Cannon's case, did until last season) with the Waratahs under Ewen McKenzie, touted as Eddie's replacement.

The anti-Eddie and anti-Gregan push is hysteria, driven to some extent by personal agendas. The reality is that the Wallaby pack is deficient. A new coach isn't going to fix that because better forwards just don't exist. Given that two thirds of a test team were sitting back in Australia injured, and that the pack is deficient - a fact proved during the Tri Nations - I'm not surprised by the overall tour result. Although they had more than enough chances to beat Wales. I don't know whether Gregan is past it because I haven't seen them play for over six months.

Anyway. I suspect that the hysteria will win out. Which will be a pity.

[Havak]

It's the calm before the storm for Eddie but I think you have called it correctly and his time is up.

You have often said Finbar how flawed world rankings are - the latest ones provide ample proof of your point I think:

1: New Zealand (Rating: 93.82)
2: South Africa (88.76)
3: France (86.10)
4: Australia (83.93)
5: England (83.27)
6: Wales (82.54)
7: Ireland (80.03)
8. Argentina (78.16)
9. Scotland (73.60)
10. Fiji (73.11)

What on earth are Australia doing right up there?

[finbar]

Rankings aren't usually calculated on a game-to-game basis but on performance over designated periods of time. Australia's position is probably due to residual benefits from their wins prior to going downhill in the Tri-Nations. In the same designated period, relative to the different hemispheres' seasons, England lost matches, too. Rankings are statisticians' playthings. How on earth does one quantify, for example, England's very narrow loss against the All Blacks against the comfortable win over Samoa? One loss, one win, with no recognition of degree of difficulty.

Eddie's not giving up. He's mounting a strategic defence. One of the things that could save him is the lack of a proven alternative. Ewen McKenzie, seemingly the only alternative, has two seasons of S12 under his belt. Something else that could save him is the despicable Alan Jones' pursuit of him. A. Jones is immensely unpopular outside of NSW rugby.

It really is an orchestrated campaign against Eddie. It's led by the Sydney Morning Herald's Greg Growden. Growden was calling for Jones' and Gregan's sackings during the last World Cup. Forced to eat humble pie after Eddie lifted the team into the final, Growden just bided his time. Amongst his suggestions for a replacement? Messers Connolly and Foley.

[Havak]

Based on their mighty achievements with Bath?

Tell him to check the table - and the results of Connolly's last game in charge last weekend.

Pat Howard is retuning to Aus in May - the ARU could do worse than to get him involved at some level.

[Havak]

Incidentally the Orange one makes his return to the game this coming weekend for Ospreys is a dead Anglo-Welsh cup rubber (Ospreys cannot qualify from their group).

The following Sunday Ospreys come to Welford Road for a European Cup game. The Orange one will face the likes of Daryl Gibson, Seru Rabeni, Ollie Smith, Dan Hipkiss and Leon Lloyd. It will be interesting to see how effective Henson is against us without (the superior talent of) Shanklin outside him.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Based on their mighty achievements with Bath?

Tell him to check the table - and the results of Connolly's last game in charge last weekend.

Pat Howard is retuning to Aus in May - the ARU could do worse than to get him involved at some level.

I'm sure they will make use of P. Howard.

Incidentally, how is Plank faring in his new career over here? I can never find his team or their results.

Equally incidentally, I note that Scott Staniforth is returning to Oz. Linking up with the Perth S14 outfit. He seemed to perform creditably for L.I. Good player. He probably would have done even better with a better club with better support.