Rugby - Hands Off Black!

[Havak]

So what you're really saying here is that they couldn't afford any 3N backs?
We've been telling you for years that forwards aren't the key to winning ...

The 2003 RWC final would suggest otherwise.

Seriously though there are plenty of tri-nations girlies in the premiership – not least Mr Spencer. Tigers have Daryl Gibson and he has really helped bring the young English guys Hipkiss and Smith on. And of course Pat Howard coaches us – Pat is far more of a legend here than he ever was in his homeland.

We also have three of the four Tuilagi brothers on the books. Sadly they slipped the net for North Auckland qualification as they all chose to represent their home nation (Samoa). Personally I wish they were English.

I guess if you pushed me (and used a baseball bat) I would admit that the foreign legion has helped develop the English game. I remain concerned about the sheer numbers of imports – but I can just about live with it as long as Tigers keep their Academy churning Brits out and maintain their current quota. I don’t really care what happens to teams like Saints that have gone whole hog for imports (most of whom contrive to be EU qualifying somehow) – you make you bed so you have to lay in it.

On which note an aside to Finbar – Tigers seem to have found another star forward from their Academy system, a 20 year old lad called Tom Croft who can cover the back five. He is similar in style and recklessness to Moody and has fantastic hands – he managed a Kiwi-esque offload in the tackle last weekend to pop Varndell through for a try against the tractor boys.

Watch out for the names Croft and Varndell – bar injury they should feature with England in the future (as will Rees of Wasps I think).

Not sure if I agree entirely with the IRB giving us the next (but one) WC quite honestly.

Japan would have been a brave choice perhaps – South Africa is just too soon after Poisongate ’95? I have no real problem with NZ getting it – it will be nearly a quarter of a century since they last did after all. And you lads must be delirious as lets face it only NZ can win it in NZ?

Obviously England should host every RWC – but failing that letting the colonials take turns is acceptable.

I can’t see any matches going across the Tasman – there is still a lot of ill feeling there about the debacle of hosting RWC 2003 I suspect? Finbar?

Refresh my memory here but what exactly was the attitude of the Welsh the last time the two teams met?

In CARDIFF in February when they had a full strength squad to pick from and England had a butchers bill from Lands End to John O’Groats. I think they were pretty confident to be honest – and it was certainly awesome how they blew us away – with one dubious penalty creating a margin of a whole two points in a game helmed by a referee who the IRB have had to discipline twice in two years (once for physical violence against England coaching staff no less).

Yes Wales sure were awesome that day :dripping sarcasm:

And THAT is why I want them confident in February. It is so much more enjoyable to beat them when they are confident – and we went for nearly a decade where that had been totally knocked out of them. I think losing to the Boks will totally deflate them after this years rampant optimism and make it very hard for them to raise things for HQ – even if the orange one deigns to play (ever) again.

CoT is a well balanced chap but I am sure there are plenty of taffs in total anguish over the fact a rebuilding England side that they have assumed they have completely overtaken has knocked over an SH side yet again when Wales fell at that hurdle. It’s just so psychologically important for the taffs to try and skittle the Boks. I’m not convinced that they can do it however – they looked really poor against Fiji.

*edit* A change of props Finbar! Fitter and Holmes start against the Paddies. Your phone call worked then?

[Havak]

And a quick comment for LDiCesare:

I'm really enjoying Civ 4 - it has grabbed hold of me in a way that Civ 3 never did. I can't put my finger on exactly why except to say this - the 'fun' is back with it.

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Caligastia
New Zealand wins the right to host the 2011 World Cup! Woohoo!!!

That just made my day. Hell, made my year. What we need to do now is build a few mega b!tchin stadiums. Get Carisbrook and Eden Park up to international standards.

I was surprised that everyone was plugging the Japs to be honest. Farr-Jones saying that it was just common sense if they wanted to spread the game.

At the end of the day, the Japanese don't know the game. Sure they'll wave lots of pretty red flags and charm the pants off you, but they don't know the game. They've never held a major rugby series and have never demonstrated they can pack stadiums for international rugby tests.

A kiwi taking his son to a RWC game MEANS something; you cannot say the same thing of a Japanese, it's just another global event to them. Colin Meads nailed it when he said that when you play in NZ, you play in a stadium with 4 million people.

[Havak]

Very bad news about McCaw.

I know Masoe is no mug - but he is no McCaw either.

I guess you also have to feel for Wales? Not only do they have an injury crisis so serious that Dafyd James is recalled on the wing after a three year absence but they also have to cope with Stuart Dickinson as referee. Poor sods.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


On which note an aside to Finbar – Tigers seem to have found another star forward from their Academy system

There's got to be some Australian blood in him somewhere. Will he drink till he spews? If so, that's close enough.

Japan would have been a brave choice perhaps –

I'd've gone with Japan. Mounting it in NZ is preaching to the converted.

I can’t see any matches going across the Tasman – there is still a lot of ill feeling there about the debacle of hosting RWC 2003 I suspect? Finbar?

Not really. The NZ admin who stuffed it up last time - and they truly stuffed it up - are largely gone, and the stuff up has been acknowledged. It started out a joint bid last time. This time they went solo, so I'm sure they intend playing the series there. I would assume that, having given NZ the nod, the IRB satisfied themselves that NZ has the requisite number of stadiums of appropriate size.

*edit* A change of props Finbar! Fitter and Holmes start against the Paddies. Your phone call worked then?

They can't do any worse, can they. I don't know how much coverage you'll get, but could you check them out for me? Ta. Fitter is an old-fashioned man-mountain type. And takes his scrummaging seriously, apparently.

[LDiCesare]

I just saw France-Tonga, which was entertaining and ended in a 43-8 fro France.
France didn't play very well in the first half. One try refused to Castaignede which was borderline, one allowed to the Tongans which I believe wasn't legit. But we lost our full back after half a minute of play so Castaignede played 15 instead of center all the match, and he really shone. The other player who was really good was Thomas Lievremont who came in as 8 in replacement of Chabal. And we saw some nice scrums. The first French try was scored on a scrum . It's a pity, though, that so many Tongans won't play for their country. For instance (the game was played in Toulouse): There are several Tongans playing in Toulouse: Isitolo and Finau Maka. One of them is not eligible because he once wore a black shirt, the other one has been in France for 4 years and would thus be eligible for France so he declined the opportunity to play for the Tonga.
Now I'm wondering who will play center and full back next week against the Boks. I know Laporte wanted to see Castaignede as center, but I don't know how much Laharrague is hurt and if there's another option for fullback (Laporte said Brusque wasn't up to the level right now).

I'm really enjoying Civ 4 - it has grabbed hold of me in a way that Civ 3 never did. I can't put my finger on exactly why except to say this - the 'fun' is back with it.

Indeed, the game has the "one more turn" thingy. My teammate saw I was yawning before our match yesterday evening. This had to do with the fact that I managed to get to sleep only 1 hour and a half after the latest hour I had authorized myself to do so (but the *** Indians wouldn't give me a tech so I had to take one more city and then another one...).

[finbar]

I listened to the Wallabies -v- Ireland match. It sounded like the less incompetent team on the day won. Cripes, Ireland must be travelling badly.

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by finbar
I listened to the Wallabies -v- Ireland match. It sounded like the less incompetent team on the day won. Cripes, Ireland must be travelling badly.

Given that Ireland were at home this is very surprising...

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Andydog

I was surprised that everyone was plugging the Japs to be honest. Farr-Jones saying that it was just common sense if they wanted to spread the game.

I think a large aprt of the appeal was the fact that they did such an amazing job (along with their RoK co-hosts) with the last soccer WC.
Apparently though they just couldn't manage to get quite the same level of govt/corporate support this time around.

A kiwi taking his son to a RWC game MEANS something; you cannot say the same thing of a Japanese, it's just another global event to them. Colin Meads nailed it when he said that when you play in NZ, you play in a stadium with 4 million people.

On another note, congratulations to England for a much improved turnaround last Sat. Credit where credit is due.
Well done Mr Robinson.

[finbar]

And an interesting reversal of the situation in NZ a couple of years ago. Then, in a close game, the ABs couldn't beat England who were suffering card-itis. Then again, in those days, England had a leader.

Leicester did, too.

[Andydog]

England played really well. Shame about the post match reaction from the pommy press.

Originally posted by ravagon

I think a large aprt of the appeal was the fact that they did such an amazing job (along with their RoK co-hosts) with the last soccer WC.
Apparently though they just couldn't manage to get quite the same level of govt/corporate support this time around.

I spoke about this with my mate during half time on Saturday. He has lived and worked in Japan as a teacher for a year or so, and is a very keen rugby player. He and I agreed that it would have been a mistake to hold the world cup in Japan for the following reasons:

1. Despite what everyone says, it would not have grown the game. Japan lacks the infrastructure to increase player numbers at grass root levels. There aren't many, if any, intermediate or primary school rugby teams. They would need coaches, other teams in their city to play against, and fields to play on. So even if a young lad decides he/she wants to play, there isn't anywhere to play.

2. The 2002 World Cup didn't increase the numbers of soccer players there. Soccer was already popular. The atmosphere was good if you went to the "right" places (i.e. Irish pubs) but it didn't really feel like the World Cup, especially in Tokyo. It really lacked that "buzz" you get when the whole city/country is behind the event.

3. They wouldn't fill the stadiums. My mate went to Japan vs. England A in Tokyo about 2 years ago with some Japanese mates of his. Only half the stadium was open because they didn't sell enough tickets. At the game, more Japanese were wearing S12 jerseys than their national team jerseys. His Japanese mates wore ABs jerseys...

I think that most people in Japan wouldn't have given a toss about the RWC. Visitors to Japan would of course be impressed by aspects of the culture and their politeness but it would not even be close to the "rugby experience of a lifetime". The Japanese themselves would give it a curious glance but that would be about it.

[finbar]

It was a secret ballot. Well, secret until, straight afterwards, the ARU announced they'd voted for Japan. Bet that thrilled the Kiwis.

[Andydog]

Thrilled to bits. The Wallabies should now be preparing to have all their pool matches in Invercargill.

[child of Thor]

Its funny how you can just loose your game isn't it?
I dont believe all Havaks disparaging remarks about the welsh team that won the six nations. Although i think he has a point in particular about the england game.

Still for me the eye opener was the victory in Paris. I dont think it was an especialy weak French side, or even a poor french performance - they seemed in control at half time.

It was the what happend after that made me see the welsh team of that six nations for what it really was, a team that had found self belief and an enjoyment in its rugby. To come from behind and beat France in Paris isnt easy, even if the french team isnt playing that well. To do it when they were seeming to be ok was special and maybe worthy to win the six nations by itself?

Anyway now wales are rubbish again and it will be a long hard winter to rebuild to that level(if it is at all possible). The whole face of rugby has been changing in Wales over tha last few years, which isn't going to help.

I only pray that come the clash with England in feb - a small miracle will have happend

And congrats for NZ getting the World Cup - it should be something special, with the team they have etc

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
Thrilled to bits. The Wallabies should now be preparing to have all their pool matches in Invercargill.

Dunedin's as close as I've been to Invercargill. Played golf there several times. Watching the ball being blown off the green, having to walk into the wind leaning forwards at around thirty degrees to avoid being blown backwards. Still, with the wind behind one off the tee, one felt like J. Daly. Presumably some sadist has built an unplayable golf course in Invercargill.