Rugby - Hands Off Black!

[Caligastia]

Ok then, NZ have to get their turn in this series of threads.

Old thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135791&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

[Havak]

Personal? Good grief, grow a harder skin will you!

I call it how I see it too – and I see it quite differently most of the time.

I am pretty sure the ABs will win Saturday – and they are a great side to watch. Should I ignore their flaws though? I don’t think they are perfect – and I don’t think man for man they are all the best players in the world (some certainly are – but not all).

You are plain wrong about Moody – when on form he is top drawer. I’ll be fair and say you have been seeing him played out of position (he is a blindside – and a damn good one) at a time he has been plagued by injuries and suspensions so he is not at the top of his game. You are right about Corry – not sure if it is fitness but something is holding him back. I’d be amazed if both men don’t raise it for Saturday. I didn’t rate Sanderson at Quins – he is a better player now he skippers Worcester but it is fair to say he is only there because the men in front of him are all crocked.

I do love your countryman Zinzan though – he is very impressive in the way he does no research for his BBC column:

They are putting a lot of emphasis on Andrew Sheridan as a big man to turn things around, but if had been that good he would have forced his way into the Lions team in the summer

Well that is true – he might have. Were it not for the fact he got injured (fractured fibula) before the tests. God bless you Zinny. Great player, 40 watt bulb up top.

I will tell you this though Andydog – I am worried about your views of the English club game so would like you to answer a question for me. Lets look at the top four clubs in the Premiership shall we – Sale, Wasps, Leicester and Gloucester.

I’m just curious friend but where are the tri-nations specialists in the packs of any of those sides? I can name several Frenchmen and an Argentinian – but I am struggling to name any tri-nations SH players. The closest I can get is the retired Craig Dowd who helps coach the Wasps forwards – but they are an English unit with a French hooker (Ibanez)

When I look at the other end of the table I see a lot of sides with some very high profile tri-nations forwards - Sarcens, Newcastle, Irish, Bath. And a lot of tri-nations coaches coaching them.

Still – why let the facts stop a point you wanted to make regardless eh?

I don’t want to drag anyone else into the debate but if anyone has any views on whether Woodcock, Mealamu, Collins and So'oialo are firstly automatically better than their English counterparts and secondly the best players in their positions in the world please do chip in. I would say they are all fair player at best - with Mealamu perhaps having the potential to be really good.

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Havak
I’m just curious friend but where are the tri-nations specialists in the packs of any of those sides? I can name several Frenchmen and an Argentinian – but I am struggling to name any tri-nations SH players.

I said "specialist foreigners", not "specialist SH foreigners". It was mainly the Frenchmen I was thinking of.

I do love your countryman Zinzan though – he is very impressive in the way he does no research for his BBC column:

Yeah old Zinny isn't the sharpest tool in the box. I'll be the first to admit that.

[Havak]

So you did. I must be paranoid about the SH part. Sorry. It does undermine my point somewhat when I misread your post.

I found two players under my mistaken reading anyway - Taione at Sale and Jake Boer at Gloucester.

Plus of course Tigers did have Josh Kronfeld for nearly three seasons. Fantastic player to watch - we were spolit with him and Backy on the books together.

So yes you are quite right - Wasps have a French Hooker. Tigers an Argentinian-Italian prop (normally benched), a Welshman and two Irishmen (the four seldom play at the same time). Sale have at least one Frenchman and Gloucester a Frenchman and an Italian IIRC.

Although I thought most English clubs were pretty well placed in the HC to be honest? And I can't find the poor results you cited against Celts in that competition with the exception of Wasps suprising loss to Edingburgh and Leeds getting hammered by Blues (but Leeds are in real relegation trouble anyway).

Sheridans Sale have blown away both Munster and Dragons, Bath beat Leinster in Dublin and the other English top flight sides have not faced Welsh sides yet in the HC.

There have been a few losses in the Anglo-Welsh cup but that is really a tertiary competition for Development sides and not really a useful indicator of much.

[finbar]

Mmmm. We had a bit of a stink going there for a minute. I was waiting for it to escalate to the point where one or other of you matched the now-nutless Taffy's bet re Saturday

I must be paranoid about the SH part.

And the Pope must be German.

[child of Thor]

I like the new thread title and its nicely appropriate other than the current run of form against NH, NZ are some of the best(that get away with it) illegal stealers of the ball on the floor in the world

It will be a fierce game on saturday up front - Havak should love it but i have a feeling it will be the backs that make the winning difference, AB's to win by 7points or more is what i'm thinking.

[finbar]

Originally posted by child of Thor
I like the new thread title and its nicely appropriate

Yes, it's the only way anyone looks like beating them. Don't let them touch the ball.

[Havak]

A winning strategy = tie their hands behind their backs? Might only win by that 7 points then?

A German pope eh? Who would ever have thought it.

I have a feeling the margin will be more than 7 in all honesty but I really don't expect to be completely blown away up front (over rated pack and all). It's not June, no big cats are involved and it's not NZ - even if the ABs remain an absolutely awesome prospect.

We might well be blown away - but that will be down to the terrific continuity game they play and their backs cutting us apart thanks to it.

If we can emulate the Boks in the pack and with setting our loosies down Carters throat we might even compete a little. We have got to take it to them at the contact areas.

The other games are intriguing for me - I think it's a job saver for Eddie. And I also suspect another SH win in Cardiff. Wales really need this SH scalp or they should stop talking about themselves as serious RWC contenders?

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Havak
edit.... And I also suspect another SH win in Cardiff. Wales really need this SH scalp or they should stop talking about themselves as serious RWC contenders?

tsk tsk - dont try to get a raise out of me Who on earth has said Wales could be RWC contenders?? or maybe it was something that slipped up in the post NZ match weirdness(like yeah wales were really close to upsetting the ABs with their performance)?
I haven't seen anything on the bbc website about Wales biggin it up for the next world cup.
At best - on current form/potential - we could make a quarter final. that is a more realisitic if opptomistic view imho. WC champs? not yet unless we have a raft of new gareth edwards and phill bennets waiting in the wings and a winning front five again?

SA will beat wales , unless a bannana skin of some kind turns up for the match(wales play out of thier skins or SA dont play as they should etc)

[Havak]

It's not the welsh camp talking their chances up the most - it's the fans. But search hard enough and you will find player quotes too.

I think you can probably guess the name of the player who has talked Wales up for the RWC the most?

He looks orange, doesn't play much rugby anymore, slags his team mates off in books and dates a pop tart.

Good luck against the Boks - I really mean that. I want a confident Wales arriving at twickers in early February.

[Caligastia]

New Zealand wins the right to host the 2011 World Cup! Woohoo!!!

[Japher]

saw that... who cares

[Caligastia]

You cared enough to post.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak

When I look at the other end of the table I see a lot of sides with some very high profile tri-nations forwards - Sarcens, Newcastle, Irish, Bath. And a lot of tri-nations coaches coaching them.

So what you're really saying here is that they couldn't afford any 3N backs?
We've been telling you for years that forwards aren't the key to winning ...


I was tempted to take a guess at the AB's by 10-20 tomorrow, unless England does that 50% improvement thingummy that Corry mentioned a few days ago.
I see though that the (further) maligned Zinzan has also picked such a margin ...
Signs and portents everywhere ...


Not sure if I agree entirely with the IRB giving us the next (but one) WC quite honestly.
8 pools, 32 teams is a bit much to cram into tiny NZ methinks?
Grounds will be packed for all matches of course, but not all of them are all that big. I wonder if we'll end up parcelling a few off across the Tasman ...

Japan would have been an excellent choice if only they'd gotten as much support behind them as they did for the last soccer WC. An outstanding job ...

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak
Good luck against the Boks - I really mean that. I want a confident Wales arriving at twickers in early February.

Mmmm. Refresh my memory here but what exactly was the attitude of the Welsh the last time the two teams met?