Election 2005

[Ramo]

I was referring to the supposed Kazak records. It's doubtful that the hs would keep track of them.

And grad program? She got into a graduate school?

I'm curious, which school is it?

This is all beyond the point. If you suppose that this sort of gross negligence happens frequently - administrators don't bother to get the high school transcript from the same damned state before admitting students, why would they not simply give illegal immigrants in-state tuition anyways? As I keep saying, verifying immigration status is a hell of a lot harder than getting a hs transcript from the same state. This girl likely would not have been able to pull it off if she claimed that she graduated from a VA high school. Thus, such a law would help prevent exactly what you are worried about.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Ramo
I was referring to the supposed Kazak records. It's doubtful that the hs would keep track of them.

And grad program? She got into a graduate school?

I'm curious, which school is it?

Yes. Didn't you read my post?

I go to William & Mary. It's an excellent school, and it regularly ranks in the top of the first tier of U.S. News and World Report rankings.

I'll address your other points later. I'm late for class.

[Ramo]

I skimmed it, didn't read the part where she was admitted.

Her grad status isn't really relevant. She got an undergrad degree, right? At that point, the hs transcript thing isn't really relevant. If the grad school accepts students with crappy grades and GRE scores, that's a standards problem, not a documentation problem (and she should have a student visa if she got into the grad program after they know that she isn't here legally).

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Wycoff
Not only do we give VA a significant amount of money in tuition, sales taxes, payroll taxes, volunteer work, etc., a large number of us stay after graduation and contribute to Virginia. I'm not complaining that Virginia residents get instate tuitions, I'm against allowing one otherwise unqualified group of people get instate tuition while other equally unqualified groups don't get the same benefit.

And I understand this and have been pointing out that as it's our state, we can be as inconsistent as we want to in dealing with outsiders.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker And I understand this and have been pointing out that as it's our state, we can be as inconsistent as we want to in dealing with outsiders.

That's fine and I understand that, but don't get so ****ing pissy when someone criticizes the inconsistency.

[lord of the mark]

so, like does Leslie Byrne have a political future? - i dont think so. Like i said, she shoulda run against Moran.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Ramo
I skimmed it, didn't read the part where she was admitted.

Her grad status isn't really relevant. She got an undergrad degree, right? At that point, the hs transcript thing isn't really relevant. If the grad school accepts students with crappy grades and GRE scores, that's a standards problem, not a documentation problem (and she should have a student visa if she got into the grad program after they know that she isn't here legally).

She does not have a student visa, and she does not meet the high standards that the other program members meet. Admissions are not objective; the personal beliefs and predjudices of admissions officials are a very powerful influence in the admissions decision making process. Want another example? Go to the Yale Law website and ask yourself how the people with GPAs under 3.74 and LSAT scores under 155 got admitted.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Wycoff
That's fine and I understand that, but don't get so ****ing pissy when someone criticizes the inconsistency.

I will, because it's none of that person's business.

[lord of the mark]

So does this position Warner nicely for 2008, or what?

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Ramo
If you suppose that this sort of gross negligence happens frequently - administrators don't bother to get the high school transcript from the same damned state before admitting students, why would they not simply give illegal immigrants in-state tuition anyways? As I keep saying, verifying immigration status is a hell of a lot harder than getting a hs transcript from the same state. This girl likely would not have been able to pull it off if she claimed that she graduated from a VA high school. Thus, such a law would help prevent exactly what you are worried about.

I don't think that it was really gross negligence, I think she pulled it off because the administration (or at least her immediate case manager) wanted her to be able to pull it off.

Practically, the in state / out of state thing won't make a difference, as almost all of the illegal students who would be admitted would receive large amounts of needs based financial aid. They wouldn't be paying either way. The arguments used to support the proposition are what bother me. The fact is that illegal families don't meet the requirements for in state tuition any more than I do. The rationale behind the instate/ out of state split is the idea that Virginia citizens that fulfill their civic obligations by paying their taxes and funding the schools entitles their children to go to the schools for a discount price. Illegals don't do and aren't expected to do what Virginian residents do, thus they're not Virginia residents. They just happen to be a class to which the state wants to turn a blind eye because it benefits most of the political and business elite.


I oppose this bill (which would have little practical effect) because of what it represents. This is the state taking another step to legitimize the ****ed up situation that we have in this country: an illegal quasi slavery system that encourages crime, severly injures the American working class, prevents many other desperate people from legally immigrating to the states, and doesn't come close to benefitting the illegals as much as it could and should. I don't have much faith that the law will be followed as written, because I see it more as a strategic law or a trojan horse more than a law designed for its own merits. The current illegal system benefits many powerful people, and anything that can be used to legitimize and entrench this unpopular and unethical system will be used by those people.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I will, because it's none of that person's business.

So a non-Virginian can't have an opinion about Virginian government? I know you don't actually mean that. You're just acting this way because I'm stating an opinion on Virginia with which you don't agree. I guarantee that you wouldn't be taking this attitude with me if I had written something of which you approved. That's very immature, Kuci.

[mrmitchell]

Virginia smackdown part two

The thing that interested me in this election were the claims that the Democrats want in-state tuition for illegal aliens.

Arkansas: In-state tuition for illegal aliens. Overwhelmingly passed, IIRC.
Virginia: Redneck hellhole.

There's good points on both sides for y'all, but Ramo(I think) hit the nail on the head for me: illegal immigrants need the break more than those fortunate enough to be born American.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Wycoff
So a non-Virginian can't have an opinion about Virginian government?

He ought not to expect Virginians to respect his whining that Virginia isn't giving him enough money.

[Kuciwalker]

There's good points on both sides for y'all, but Ramo(I think) hit the nail on the head for me: illegal immigrants need the break more than those fortunate enough to be born American.

I made that point first

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker He ought not to expect Virginians to respect his whining that Virginia isn't giving him enough money.

So you've entirely missed the point AND avoided addressing the fact that the sole reason you're being a jerk is because you disagree with me.

Well played, lad. Well played.