What party am I?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Last time i will say this, The goverment has no business in procreation. What business is it of the president or the senate or house what i do with my body?? If they are so willing to fight this hard then by all means lets inseminate them all and let them have the kids. Pregnancy is a personal issue and should not be on the blocks of chopping or deciding unless you are the pregnant one. As far ar the dems and the repubs they have all done an equal amount of damage to the country. And will continue to do so. Which party you belong to is not an issue since most of these fools say one thing and then do the oppiste once they are in office

[Lancer]

I'd have to agree that my pro life stance makes me a republican, but I'm tired of them just giving pro life people lip service. If the two new supreme court justices don't do something about shifting the balance towards anti abortion legislation, I'm going to be so disappointed that I'll likely vote democrat for a while just to clear out the forked tounge buggers in 'my' party.

[Theben]

To do that they'd have to disband completely...

[Frankychan]

I'm registered as a Democrat...

1) I'm Pro-Choice. Like I said to my Women Studies class, if I don't have the parts, I shouldn't be writing the users manual. Let women decide, cause they're the ones that have to give birth.

2) I'm Pro-Military. The military defends our nation. Nuff said. But I do believe pork projects should be cut out...in the same vein, I know we have to explore new technology that might take years to develop.

3) Pro-Environment. There's only one planet.

4) Pro-Union...mostly I think unions are important, but when they get too much power, they become a**holes. The stevedore union here controls our state with an ironfist. Uneducated stevedores who were "grandfathered in" make more than our governor.

5) Higher minimum wage. But at the same time, have tax breaks for the poorest of the poor.

6) I'm pro US worker protection.

7) I'm for social welfare programs, but everyone in the society should work unless they can't---->FEASIBLE disability. Being obese doesn't count. Everyone works for the betterment of society. Anyone abusing the social welfare system gets his/her privileges revoked.

8) Universal healthcare. Nuff said.

9) Anti-death penalty/pro-forced labor. Gotta replace the death penalty with labor. That way they contribute to society and get their just desserts.

10) Anti-big business.

[Mr. Harley]

Lancer - a question. Do you support BK's position - he and I have left some rather large exchanges on this - that hormonal "birth control" is actually an abortificant, and therefore should also be banned? If you do agree with him, then I will agree to disagree. However, when PETA tries to force laws through granting Animals full rights with Humans, via almost identical reasoning, don't cry foul. You've opened the floodgates, and they are fighting with your rules, i.e. using legislation to compel morality. Where does it stop?

If you don't agree with BK, and want to just ban "abortions", then who sets the moral standards? The Pope? The Southern Baptist Convention? The head Imam in Mecca, or in that well-respected school in Egypt? The Dali Lama?

What standards? BK's abortificant one - which is consistant with the Catholic Church. Do you want to make a 12 year pregnant girl (there ARE 13 year olds having children) who has been raped not have abortion available? Or will you permit, for example like India, to have religious law set by that community, mostly, so for example Moslems can have multiple wifes and Hindu's not? And then will you permit a woman to become Muslim and have an abortion within the first 100 days - the standard in that religion from my understanding.

That was the point The Emperor Fabulous was making. You can be anti-abortion while realizing the dangerous precedent legislating your morality makes, i.e. pro-choice. If the pro-choice individuals are wrong, and you and BK are right - they will certainly suffer the punishments of those condemned to eternal torment in hell. Let God sort it out, and keep freedom alive.

Oh, and the wonderful halcyon days when USA banned abortion - permitted Jim Crow, refused non-Christians recognition of their sabbath and holy days while giving massive deference to Christian ones, jailed people for "living in sin" and permitted landlords to kick them out of their home/apartment, put gays in prison for having consensual sex, jailed people for political afiliaton, and took Native American children from their parents as a deliberate pattern of ethnicide. It's like the arguments over "...under God" we had several threads ago - it is an atmosphere and an attitude. And I am just talking post-1945 through the Civil Rights era, if I go back further...

[DaShi]

I don't know what political party I should join. I need some sort of internet test to show me what the best values and opinions are then assign me to a party that claims to hold those best values and opinions.

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by DaShi
I don't know what political party I should join. I need some sort of internet test to show me what the best values and opinions are then assign me to a party that claims to hold those best values and opinions.

Be a totalitarian, like I scored.

[Lancer]

"To do that they'd have to disband completely..."



Mr. Harley, I don't know enough about the hormonal birth control bit to justify an opinion. Regarding who decides who can have an abortion, who decides now? The woman decides because it's 'her body'. Nobody is looking after the body that is being torn from her, that body doesn't count...because it's too small? Can't speak for itself? I don't know. If you view that as a person, well, with what? 40 million abortions...then it's a worse atrocity than the holocaust. That's why some of us get worked up about it. Others say, no, it's not a person. How can they know? They don't, they say that out of convienience or political correctness or because someone they respect says it. How much suffering is involved in the destruction of that being? Who knows? I admit I don't. Nobody knows, really. Everyone that knows is dead.

Supersneak has an interesting take on the subject. He was almost aborted...the story escapes me, but he's pro life.

Regarding PETA and their reasoning, people are people and animals are animals.

Regarding religion, all religions are subject to the law and if the law says abortion is murder then it's murder for a moslem, athiest, christian or whatever.

Regarding your final paragraph, I'm not suggesting we bring back the things you listed which really have nothing to do with the abortion debate.

[Mr. Harley]

Lancer - read the position by PETA. They COMPLETELY DISAGREE. You just essentially used my favorite inconsistancy detector phrase - But that's different (a variation on it). They feel that animals have the same rights, some of them feel MORE rights, than the fetus. They want to use the legal system to force you to conform to their beliefs.

Reference religion, did you really read my post. The overall consensus in Islam is 100 days. Do YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE imposing your moral interpretation on them. And then do you have any problem with them, when they have the capability, of forcing their moral conclusions on others using the force of the state, i.e. laws. So if they locally become a majority in an area, they can pass local ordinances based on Sharia. Don't laugh - that could easily happen in some of our inner city sections if Muslims keep having lots of babies, it's what scares the Israelis spitless.

Finally - refence my last paragraph - I get this hideous impression you are totally blinded by the "that's different" syndrome. All of that was part and parcel of the "good old days". Hell, it is in THIS MILLENIUM that Texas still threw gays into jail if they were "caught" having gay sex IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR HOME. That's why we had a SCOTUS decision on that in 2003, that could be easily overturned on the Altar of States Rights with these two new justices (5-4 decision).

The same with all those laws preventing age, sex, and race discrimination in the work place, because that is not properly a federal function if the post-1937 Commerce Clause interpretations are repeals. GFG, are you so blinded that you cannot see the connections. It was like Bush not seeing the connection between Saddam, brutality, and keeping the lid on the boiling pot that is Iraq. His dad very definitely saw it. He couldn't, and we have that mess. This is the same, you cannot just "pick out" what you want to permit, and what you want to forbid (reference morality law). Once that genie is out of the bag, than PETA is just fighting you using your own rules. Can't you see that!

[Imran Siddiqui]

My twisted eye view of things (based on Lance's list)

1) Pro Choice - it's an issue of consent. We don't force people to take in homeless people and they can forcibly remove them from their houses, even if it is -50 degrees.

2) I'm Pro Military, to a certain extent - a lot of military pork needs to be examined to see if we really need it.

3) I'm somewhat Pro Environment - we should have increased CAFE standards and higher gas prices are good because they result in people buying more efficient cars. However, we shouldn't just toss business out with the bathwater. Economic growth should always be a consideration with environmental considerations.

4) I'm Pro Union - up to the point they steal pension money from their workers .

5) I'm Anti Higher Minimum Wage.

6) I'm Pro & Anti US Worker Protection - which depends on what that means . If its tariffs so people can 'buy American', forget it. If it is workplace rules and stuff like that, sure.

And I'm an independant now. Used to be a moderate Republican, but no place in that party for me anymore.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


5) I'm Anti Higher Minimum Wage.

Then you hate American workers, right?

[Jon Miller]

for those that are pro choice

currently in the US, you can abort the baby when it has independent brain waves

I Think that this definitely qualifies it as being a living being, no questions of religiousness to define where life begins...

note that I think that the law should be done scientifically, brainwaves aren't something like conception which many believe for spiritual reasons..

this isn't some grey line, that can move any way you want..

and we legislate killing people all the time, you can't just go out and kill anyone, so your argruments Mr. Harley are stupid

killing humans has always been legislated by the state, this isn't an issue of personal choice or differences of culture..

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

frankly I do understand how people vote primarily on the abortion issue

it is the greatest crime against humanity in the US today, perhaps only trumped by the excesses of our capitalist system (think Enron..)

of course, republicans don't really want take care of the abortion issue either (then where will their single issue voters go?)

Jon Miller

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by MrFun
Then you hate American workers, right?

That's right! I want to eat their bones and rape their children

I Think that this definitely qualifies it as being a living being, no questions of religiousness to define where life begins...

I don't care if its living or not. It is physically depending on the body of another person to live. If it can live outside the womb, then let it do so. If it can't, then it dies. So sorry.

[Jon Miller]

I am pretty sure that abortion is currently allowed at ages past when the young child could be removed and taken care of by the hospital...

are you in favor of outlawing abortion after that age?

Jon Miller