Why Do People let Themselves Get Obese?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Dr. Nick




I was 15 kilos overweight. I went on a diet with a dietician, started exercising, and lost the 15 kilos in one year. I didn't even alter my diet that much, and "exercise" was mostly football once a week. Most of it was walking briskly to university instead of taking the subway. I've been in their shoes.

lol

with putting on the weight, I have ate semi reasonable for a while (like while I often eat out, and use to eat out more, I only ate one meal a day... so even if the portions were large, I still wasn't getting that many calories) (this is of course excluding alcohol)

and walking for a couple miles a day, 5ish days a week...

so I don't beleive those who say it is easy.. it isn't for me

JM

[GePap]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
I find it entertaing for folks to think that fruits and veggies help you loose weight when in actuallity they do not. THey might be healthy eating but they in no way assist you on a diet alone. I hate to disagree with ya but to uch fruits and veggies is not heathy either. Say a person only likes bannas which by far is the cheapest fruit you can buy, eating 6 of them in way day can possibly kill you by sending your potassium level over the top.
Regradless if it is a choice to eat or take that first drink, addiction is still what it, is a disease. And the folks that over eat must be given the oppurtunity to get well through intervention by medical professional and loved ones.

I have to disagree. Vegetables specially are mostly bulk fiber. They make you feel full long before the amoutn of calories in them is an issue.

The kind of diet people eat is probably THE significant issue when it comes to obesity- there is a reason why the rates of obesity were relatively constant from until the early 80's, and what one sees is VAST portion inflation. Just compare a restaurant meal today with one in 1980 and the difference in size is amazing, specially at fast food chains. People are presented with more food all the time, and since all portions are huge, you don't have a sane comparison anymore.

Human beings are designed to make sure they eat enough to live- malnution will kill you at any age- obesity only starts killing really after 40, more than enough time for people to breed and fulfill their biological imperative. That is how the human body was made- put people in a place were food is cheap, plentiful, ladden with calories, and they will get fatter. Its not an addiction, is not a mania. Its being human.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Footie Mad
And why does not the state do something to inform the poor of basic nutritional information, and possibly subsidize some healthier foods?

If im not remembering this wrong there is some kind of system where the state hands out "tickets" that can be used for buying food. If they excluded obviously unhealthy foods from being purchasable with these tickets it might encourage people to eat better.

You are probably refering to food stamps, which are food aide for the poor.

The food industry is a huge player in the country (given its an industry that will never die), and it produces vast amounts of food. Imagine if people ate half as much? What happens to the industrial farm model? The point of mass production is to create goods to be consumed. You need to create a market if you seek to expand. NO one in business makes more money if the customers want or buy less, now do they? And when it comes to food, the big players need people to keep shoveling food down their throats, unless you want profit margins to go way down. Obviously if customers didn't want a much food, it would not work, but again, people generally don;t chose to do with less of a basic bodily need.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I am hardly skinny myself, I am short though (169cm) which makes things awkward in terms of weight. This is what I mean by people taking things too seriously, sometimes society's obsession with skinniness is overwhelming - it's one of the reasons why I have next to no confidence with the opposite sex coupled with my height.

I do apologize to you, i am so used to be called a bleeding heart and such, that i cant see when another person has the same idea i am trying to get across. The obsession society has on skinny is just as bad as the way the over weight folks are treated. I dont believe there is oone single person that wakes up and says i want to be fat so i can be made fun of or scoffed at.
@ gepap well while those fruits and veggies are high in fiber as you say they have a larger caloric value and most dont burn of as fast as say other types of food. Hence your wide galore of hi carb diets.

[Dr. Nick]

I find it entertaing for folks to think that fruits and veggies help you loose weight when in actuallity they do not. THey might be healthy eating but they in no way assist you on a diet alone. I hate to disagree with ya but to uch fruits and veggies is not heathy either. Say a person only likes bannas which by far is the cheapest fruit you can buy, eating 6 of them in way day can possibly kill you by sending your potassium level over the top.

There is no such thing as "too much fruits and vegetables", except for the notable exceptions of banana and avocadoh. However, one banana counts as two pieces of fruit in most diets. Avocadohs are so packed with energy and fat they are only to be eaten very sparingly. Although I don't think eating six bananas a day will kill you from because of the potassium, the problem is the amounts of sugar in the banana is much higher when compared to other fruit.

Regradless if it is a choice to eat or take that first drink, addiction is still what it, is a disease. And the folks that over eat must be given the oppurtunity to get well through intervention by medical professional and loved ones.

The majority of the population is just lazy. Not addicted. Not genetically obese. Lazy, and uninformed. I'm sure that if people became aware of the health risks the incidence of obesity would be lower. People don't realise just how bad it is until the damage has been done.

(like while I often eat out, and use to eat out more, I only ate one meal a day... so even if the portions were large, I still wasn't getting that many calories) (this is of course excluding alcohol)

Jon, have you seen a dietician? From what I've read in the thread you're sort of playing it by ear, and I think it would help you immensely if you had someone set you straight with your diet.

I do apologize to you, i am so used to be called a bleeding heart and such, that i cant see when another person has the same idea i am trying to get across. The obsession society has on skinny is just as bad as the way the over weight folks are treated. I dont believe there is oone single person that wakes up and says i want to be fat so i can be made fun of or scoffed at.

Good health should be a good "obsession". Being skinny is unhealthy, and being overweight is unhealthy. I'm not making a value judgement here, it's nothing more than a statement of fact. Eating too little is bad for you, eating too much is bad for you. Not exercising enough is bad for you, exercising too much can be bad for you.

@ gepap well while those fruits and veggies are high in fiber as you say they have a larger caloric value and most dont burn of as fast as say other types of food. Hence your wide galore of hi carb diets.

Fruit do not have large caloric values in general, except for notable exceptions. Neither do most vegetables (except, of course, tuberous roots, which don't count as vegetables when you're putting together a diet, but as cereals).

The problem, overall, is as gepap calls it: man evolved to have an energetic balance of 0 back in the days. Surpluses are very new in evolutionary terms, and especially for the larger portions of the population (you won't find many overweight people even a hundred years ago). Hence, the human body is prepared for scarcity, and is a resource hungry organism. If we couple the problem of excess intake (and of the wrong foods) with the massive decline of physical activity (woohoo for technology?) we obviously have a problem of an excessively positive energy balance.

[Alexander's Horse]

One good rule is you should always leave the table feeling a bit hungry.

The main problem in my opinion is lack of exercise. Most people eat a balanced diet.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Dr nick i do know a bit about nutriton. I am sorry you dont agree with me. I do know that fruits and veggies do not burn off as fast as some other foods. They are part of a balanced diet and essential for nutrition. But eating more of them and less fat is not a balanced diet. You will still find your self overweight if yo were already ther to begin with by just eating fruits and veggies.. Oh and by the way yes the bannnas are very high in potassium and having to much potassium in your system can kill ya.
I love the way that folks tell you to make sure to take your vitamins. In all honesty if you are eat a blanced diet you do not need to supplent these vitamines cause the foods you are eating provide enough of them to get you by. The only exception for this rule is if you are diagonised with having a low count of that specific need such as calcium or iron etc.
And I do not know how many kids you have but if you have more then two and a husband/ wife work full time and have extra curricular activites going on with the kids i hardly see time to sit and plan nutrious meals when your a bit short on time. And still have 101 things to do before you retire for the evening

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Dr. Nick


Jon, have you seen a dietician? From what I've read in the thread you're sort of playing it by ear, and I think it would help you immensely if you had someone set you straight with your diet.

my doctor (who is probably not that great) is a Primary Care/Weight Loss doctor

so he feels that weight is very important.. and occasionally talks to me about diet

he gives me a list that I should cut back on, but none of the foods (except the occasionally fetticuni alfredo or egg) do I eat, so it doesn't do me much good

Jon Miller

[Dr. Nick]

Dr nick i do know a bit about nutriton. I am sorry you dont agree with me. I do know that fruits and veggies do not burn off as fast as some other foods. They are part of a balanced diet and essential for nutrition. But eating more of them and less fat is not a balanced diet. You will still find your self overweight if yo were already ther to begin with by just eating fruits and veggies.. Oh and by the way yes the bannnas are very high in potassium and having to much potassium in your system can kill ya.

Well, this is fairly obvious. As long as your caloric intake is higher than your caloric expenditure you will put on weight, regardless of the source. People should consume as much as they spend. And the makeup of a balanced diet is usually one where carbohydrates should make up 60-65% of caloric intake (flours and starches, not sugar carbohydrates). Proteins 15%, fats the remaining 15-10%. Too much fibre is never bad for you.

And it is true that with a balanced diet you get sufficient vitamins and minerals, yes.

As to the potassium, I seriously doubt whether eating too many bananas will put a healthy individual at risk of sudden death due to elevated serum concentrations of potassium. There are compensatory processes the body has to get rid of the excess potassium. Only people in renal failure and heart disease might be at risk.

On the other hand, look at the glories of bananas in the healthy individual:

http://umanitoba.fitdv.com/new/articles/article.html?artid=347

And I do not know how many kids you have but if you have more then two and a husband/ wife work full time and have extra curricular activites going on with the kids i hardly see time to sit and plan nutrious meals when your a bit short on time. And still have 101 things to do before you retire for the evening

I'm 21 and single, no kids. But my mother raised two kids, on her own, with a full time job (teaching) plus corrections and running the house when she got back, plus all the added extra curriculars, et cetera... and nutritious eating just... happened. Stacking the fridge with a variety of things lets you decide what to eat within an hour or two of dinner time. Eating well is not an issue of time it's an issue of information and, well, choice.

[Dr. Nick]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


my doctor (who is probably not that great) is a Primary Care/Weight Loss doctor

so he feels that weight is very important.. and occasionally talks to me about diet

he gives me a list that I should cut back on, but none of the foods (except the occasionally fetticuni alfredo or egg) do I eat, so it doesn't do me much good

Jon Miller

When I went to the dietician I went over not just what I could and couldn't eat, but over what combinations of foods to avoid, and what a typical breakfast/mid morning snack/lunch/tea/dinner should contain. Have you tried upping exercise? Just don't let poor results discourage you.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski

@ gepap well while those fruits and veggies are high in fiber as you say they have a larger caloric value and most dont burn of as fast as say other types of food. Hence your wide galore of hi carb diets.

What vegetable has a high caloric value?

The body can only burn one of three things carbohyddrates, fats, and proteins. Vegetables in general are low in protein and fats, and most of the carbhohydrates that make them up are indigestible to the human body. Hnece their caloric value is low.

Fruits are made up of simple sugars, so certainly they do have calories, but not that many. Your average Banana has 100 Calories. That is not much, for the potassium you get. Oranges have less, and have even more nutrients.

[Jon Miller]

I am trying to up exercise now

I generally start exercising, and then run into issues with it which causes me to not do much for a while (sometimes as much as a month)

general issues are beggining of classes, ending of classes, and vacations (summer, winter, etc)

in the last 6 days (including today) I have:
used cardio machines 5 days for at least 20 minutes
played basketball for ~1 hour
lifted some weights one day (today)

this is more then usual (usual is 20+ minutes of cardio ~3 days a week), but last tuesday was the first day I could use the gym since school started (over a month ago) because I couldn't pay the student fees until then

and when I can't use the gym, I usually end up playing basketball (or doing something else athletic) about once a week.. which is too little

I also generally do a decent ammount of walking (often walk to school which is a mile away)

note that with the once a week athletic activity, my athleticism goes way down, to the point where it is soon hard to do that once a week activity

doing three days a week, my athleticism increases very slowly..

two days a week, and I pretty much stay the same (depends on how good the exercise was)

Jon Miller

[GePap]

Also, the issue about ingesting is not about burning fat. Its abolut Calory intake. A diet high in vegetables will invariably mean a lower caloric intake than other diets-that is a given. Hence the body will be forced to either burn up stored fat to make up the defecit, or will not add any fat.

[Mr. Harley]

One other issue - in the US unprocessed healthy foods cost MORE than foods that are processed. Unbleached flour, or whole grain flour, costs more than the standard bleached, hulled (i.e. not whole grain) type. Not a little bit, in the case of flour, and rice, two to three times as much.

Why? A small factor is economy of scale, but that does not account for the fact the multiplier effect is so large. The single biggest factor is that better educated people (this does not necessarily mean a degree) are the ones purchasing the healthy foods, and they will pay more to get them. Thus they are priced out of the reach of the poor (which can include the better educated but statiscally does not - and we are talking populations here). A positive, or if you wish negative, feedback loop increasing obesity in the USA.

[Dr. Nick]

in the last 6 days (including today) I have:
used cardio machines 5 days for at least 20 minutes
played basketball for ~1 hour
lifted some weights one day (today)

I don't know how overweight you are, but in general, when the object of exercise is to help as a tool for losing weight, you're doing the right number of sessions, but you're not spending enough time on the cardio machines. Ideally, your cardio machine workouts should be no less than 30 continous minutes, ideally between 45-60 minutes at a moderate intensity. Basketball and other team sports are excellent exercise too, if you do it often enough and long enough. Moderate in quantifiable terms means about 75% of your maximum heartrate... in qualitative terms, it means going on and on and on without getting fatigued.

Also, the issue about ingesting is not about burning fat. Its abolut Calory intake. A diet high in vegetables will invariably mean a lower caloric intake than other diets-that is a given. Hence the body will be forced to either burn up stored fat to make up the defecit, or will not add any fat.