Turkey (So Long & Goodnight)

[VetLegion]

And history of Macedonia is a bit complex. I do not know it very well and would do it a bit of unjustice trying to explain it in one post. Basically, Macedonian language is virtually indistinguishable from Bulgarian and Macedonians are really really close to Bulgarians ethnically and culturally.

One of their main parties, VMRO-DPMNE, draws its name from historical VRMO movement which fought the Turks, was founded or based in Sofia (Bulgaria) and so on.

Basically, the one who is "responsible" for modern day Macedonia is Josip Broz Tito. I've been to Skopje shortly and he is still very much respected there, unlike in other ex-Yugoslavian republics where he is mostly despised.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Spiffor,
It could take much more than a generation, don't forget old EU economies are growing too. At a slow pace, but growing. New members have to have strong growth for decades to catch up.

And let's not forget that membership itself is not a guarantee that economies of members will converge in the meaning of GDP/capita. Take Greece for example, it is as rich/poor now in relation to other EU countries as she was when she became a member, always floating somewhere between 65-75% of average EU GDP/capita.

Indeed. Let's hope there will be more success with the ney members than with Greece.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yes Tito is responsible for Skopjie getting the name Macedonia. They were called Vardar before. That was his plan to get an exit in the aegean sea. Funny that they tried it to keep it in motion after communism has failed!


a theory says the greeks didnt oppose the name back then because our allies (with allies like those who needs enemies ) didnt want to displease moscow bashing Tito. (tito went "away" from soviets) another theory says we foolishly believed that after comminism fell we could claim that land for our own so we let the name change take place without objection. take your pick. both are possible.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
A country refusing to admit genocide against Armenia and invading a european country with no intention to go away has no place in the EU

Since when is Cyprus in Europe?

[Bereta_Eder]

Both Rodos and Cyprus are geographically in Asia although culturally they have been "classified" european since long ago.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by VetLegion
unlike in other ex-Yugoslavian republics where he [Tito] is mostly despised.

Why is he despised?

[VetLegion]

And about them being threat - no way.

Most European countries, or in fact world countries, have some sort of "megali" idea. Does the term sound familiar?

Even the famous hippies the Finns, have a longing for a legitimate part of Russia which is South Karelia. I bet you you can find maps of "greater Finland" on the internet, and I bet you fringe political parties are having it in their programme to fight for return of those territories.

Now, you may say it was more mainstream in 1990-ies Macedonia. Perhaps so. But you have to know that Tito's regime dealt with nationalism brutally and it was suppressed in Yugoslavia. So naturally when Yugoslavia fell apart you saw an explosion of such sentiments in the republics. Hell, there is even map of "greater Slovenia".

What of it? Nothing. Greeks should have showed wisdom and let Macedonians lose steam naturally. Threat to Solun was minimal, MarkG was always safe

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Since when is Cyprus in Europe?

1st May 2004

[Bereta_Eder]

the hippie finns

[chequita guevara]

I wonder why Greece sees a divided Bulgaria as more of a threat than a united Bulgaria.

[Bereta_Eder]

gdong! who ever said that?

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Bereta_Eder
Bulgarians are slavicized mongols my little croat tie. start learning history other than what is in the surface

slavicised Turks is more like it.

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW relations with Skopjie are in fact excellent. greece is biggest investor, created thousands of jobs, helped with putting down albanian insurgance lending apache's helicopters and such and all are going peachy except for the name. i think soon it will be resolved too to both countries satisfaction. but noone seems to be in a hurry about that. letting it cool off i think,.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Why is he despised?

I probably used too strong a word. He is not universally despised. People lived and loved under his regime, and you could live very good if you stayed out of politics. So many in all republics remember him fondly. Sentiments are mixed.

He is blamed for a lot of things though.

Serbs blame him because they think they were screwed in Yugoslavia, what with being the largest nation and all. They think they should have had more say and influence, and they think they invested a lot in Yugoslavia and look how they were repaid by smaller nations.

Croats and Slovenians think he preferred the Serbs and gave them too much influence and power, and also drained money from them to invest in Serbia (Kosovo).

Bosnian muslims love him

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Bereta_Eder
BTW relations with Skopjie are in fact excellent. greece is biggest investor, helped with putting down albanian insurgance lending apache's helicopters and such and all are going peachy except for the name. i think soon it will be resolved too to both countries satisfaction. but noone seems to be in a hurry about that. letting it cool off i think,.

Well, invest more. Skopje is rather poor, after Athens it seemed to me like from another universe. Their landlocked position and political trouble is really hurting the economy. For two Euros you can get taxi to drive you wherever, and that's the "naive tourist" price. In Zagreb it's 10 even for the shortest relations, and most are 20 or more