Turkey (So Long & Goodnight)

[Bereta_Eder]

i remember crossing yugoslavia before it disindegrated. i was of small age back then but skopjie did strike me as poor even back then. as we moved to thenorth with the car the more better it became. in fact i remember zagreb as being the most beautiful capital of the three we saw. skopjie, belgrade and zagreb. belgarde seems too.... soviet. red bricks everywhere not good looking buildings anyway maybe we went through the industrial areas or something.

[Pekka]

VetLegion, you do realize that the Greater Finland is mostly BS, right? There must have been some supporters of it back in the days, for the map is real, but again, you should know our history more to actually know what's going on.

There has been many 'tribal wars' or something like that a long time ago, when there were many expeditions to the regions, and there was fighting involved. Many places wished to join Finland, but mostly it didnt' happen since the commies where holding on to them. It was parts of what happened in the region in general long time ago, not so much Finland vs Russia. It was a complex thing.

However, the whole Greater Finland thing is mostly BS. USSR used it as our 'motive' to attack in Mainila, and used that as their propaganda that we wanted to take on the Rooskies in order to have that Greater Finland. However if oyu believe that, then you believe Stalin's propaganda.

So it's a difficult thing that map. I'm saying it's real, buit it's not THAT real. Difficult to explain.

[VetLegion]

Look Pekka, your Finns are racists and expansionists. I know it, you know it, and the rest of the world is going to know it soon so stop denying it

[Pekka]

We are racists but we are not expansionists. FACT.

Let's just say we have lost lots of our regions to what is now Russia, not just from the war. So.. and there's been more fighting than the winter war. SO we've always been kind of hot headed towards each other and we both have claims to regions, who is right, depends where you look at it but objectively I think no one is more wrong or right. Except of course the Karelia parts lost because of the aggressive communist invasion. THat's plain wrong. But as for other claims, I won't be a judge of it, everyone is right and wrong.

But the whole map thing, to understand its meaning, requires lots of knowledge on history that even I should refresh my memory on. Basically it's crap even though the map is real, and it has had some supporters back in the day, but the support has been marginal and it does not include taking over Russia, just some parts of it, small parts. The Greater Finland map does not include or refer to any world domination dreams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Finnish_wars

Here is where you get more info, tribal wars.

And in order to understand that truly, you would need to know our Civil War and basically what were things happening before that, how it came to it, and in order to understand that, you would need to read on the history before that.

It's all connected. Basically we have had sympathies for the victims of the commies and helped them.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Pekka
We are racists but we are not expansionists. FACT.

Damn you I fell of my chair

[Atahualpa]

This whole cyprus thing is so passé, what does turkey expect? That they'll get it back!?!? Come on, be a man and recognize their indpendence.

[Pekka]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Finland

You can see the map of what would be Greater Finland. Basically it was more 'ethnic' connection thing than anything else, getting some support from Karelians etc, areas to be annexed. But, it was more like an idea and goal for a group of people and not official thing.

Remind you, my last name is Karelian name, and my family from other side comes from there. I've been hearing lots of crap about how it's OK that 400 000 lost their homes there on snap of fingers, decided by Stalin, the mass murderer, including my family as well. So, to this day I have taken some personal insult of stupid hippies who always talk about stuff they don't have to bother with, but at least my grandpa etc remembers and knows what it truly means and meant. Now, I don't mind when people joke, but ignorance is no excuse.

And I like Rooskies and at the moment we are one of their better neighbours, but if there was a poll asking if we should take back what is rightfully ours in front of justice and God, I support any and every action, including nuclear warfare.



And fi you ask me, woudl I support this Greater Finland, no I wouldn't. It's a stupid idea. Has no merits or common sense in it really. Most kids today don't even know what this map is or have ever seen it. That's how 'big deal' it is. Personally, I don't know anyone who has ever talked about this subject in real life, or supports this even secretly. THere's like no movements for this. Consider the map something ... an element of historic nature.

[Dr Strangelove]

So what exactly is the status of Cyprus currently? I remember the Turkish invasion decades ago seperating Cyprus into a rather large occupied Turkish zone and a smaller Greek zone? I take it that the Greek zone has been granted entry into the EU? Did the Turks give back some of the land they took? Are they still occupying the Turkish zone? Are there plans to re-unify the country?

Which countries have been granted entry into the EU since 1991?

[Gangerolf]

the greek zone is larger
yes it is in the eu
the turkish zone is iiuc independent but only recognised by turkey
they had a referendum about reunifying the country, but the greeks voted no.


since 1991, 13 countries have been granted entry.
# Austria 1995
# Finland 1995
# Sweden 1995
# Hungary 2004
# Poland 2004
# Czech Republic 2004
# Slovak Republic 2004
# Slovenia 2004
# Estonia 2004
# Latvia 2004
# Lithuania 2004
# Malta 2004
# Cyprus 2004

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/european_union/newsid_2139000/2139013.stm

[Sandman]

A sensible move by the Turks. It's a win-win for them, really. An EU which refuses entry to them is an EU which isn't worth joining in the first place.

[Pekka]

An EU that lowers requirements for a big country about to be force to be reckoned in it is not EU worth keeping.

Oh, and *tear*

[Sandman]

Who's lowering requirements? If anything, the requirements have been increased for Turkey.

[Pekka]

Yeah. That's true. Like I've said before there are good reasons for it. There are also bad reasons for it, that surely are in play too. Not denying it.

But certain issues, like human rights issues, are absolute. So SHUT UP!

[RGBVideo]

2) others (germans for example) did it before us

Interesting spin you've got. You did it before you joined, and are still doing it, to a much larger extent than anyone else.

But like I said, it doesn't seem to matter.

[MarkG]

If anything, the requirements have been increased for Turkey.

recognizing the existance of all the members of club you want to enter is a very, very low requirement....