Turkey (So Long & Goodnight)

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Winston


Sure is.

But this time it's not just the Greeks. Nobody wants Turkey in. Except of course the U.S. and others, who would have the luxury of enjoying the show from a distance.

For once we agree on something. I don't want Turkey in either before they change radically. Letting Turkey join EU today would be like letting Communist Cuba become a full-member state in the US (but with the population number of Mexico).

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Winston


Sure is.

But this time it's not just the Greeks. Nobody wants Turkey in. Except of course the U.S. and others, who would have the luxury of enjoying the show from a distance.

the eastern European countries are more enthusiastic towards future EU enlargements, including Turkey. There were researches. Poles are one of two or three nations with majority wishing Turkey in: but I think most of the right-wing parties are against it, and they will be ruling after the elections.

[RGBVideo]

4.6/10, now rank this:

The real question should be: Why on earth haven't we kicked Greece out after they were caught pants down cooking their budget books in order to enter the EMU?

I can answer that question myself: Because EU is currently lead by cokehead bureaucrats lacking balls to do anything about it. It was a bad mistake to join it.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Turkish ladies taking refuge at Ted Striker's house

Send any overflow to me

[MarkG]

Re: 4.6/10, now rank this:

Originally posted by VJ
The real question should be: Why on earth haven't we kicked Greece out after they were caught pants down cooking their budget books in order to enter the EMU?

1/10
1) we werent caught, we came out on our own
2) others (germans for example) did it before us

[Winston]

If Greece should be scolded/isolated, it should be for its obstructive and harassing behaviour surrounding Macedonia at a time when this new nation was struggling for recognition from the international community. An absolute disgrace that was.

[Lancer]

The US should give Iraq to the Greeks. That way the Greeks will have Turkey surrounded!

The first step to re-establishing Byzantium.

[Pekka]

"The club in question created a situation in which it rewards one side to a conflict for refusing what everybody else accepted as a fair and balanced deal, and punishes the other, isolated, side for agreeing to reunification."

The other side is in the EU. Turkey is not in the EU yet. It doesn't exactly have lots of barganing chips. Requirements are set.

Now, it's fair to ask, if the requirements are the same for everyone. Maybe not. But this changes nothing.

Turkey has lots of efforts to be made and it has made lots of effort. But still it's not enough. A bigger push and the time it needs to make it happen, then we see. That's what I think is what we all should do. And if Turkey meets requirements then, then sure. Before it doesn't, no way.

It's really very simple.

Besides, Turkey does not have a position it makes everyone else think it has by the way it talks. Like, we are coming in soon or we don't want you at all. What is this? If that's the rhetorics, what's the offer? Ah, NO counter offer at all? Like said, really very simple.

But I hope for everyones sake, Turkey makes it. And meets the requirements. Good for everyone.

[VetLegion]

I kind of agree. It's a club. Turkey won't get anywhere threatening to abandon the talks.

Personally, I support Turkish entry . I ain't affraid of 80 million muslims

But rules are rules... for example, what they are doing to us in Croatia is somewhat similar to what they are doing to Turkey. They're keeping us out because of one guy that is in hiding and won't surrender to the court in Hague. They say "find him and deliver him or no talks with EU". So no talks it is. I still think EU is within its rights to demand whatever conditions it wants from any aspiring member.

The problem is hypocrisy. In the past "strict EU conditions for entry" have been flexed on numerous occasions. Some countries have been admitted in with EU turing a blind eye to all sorts of things, from economic freedom to human rights for minorities and such.

So it is only logical Turkey to try get admitted under similar "just sign here and we'll fix stuff as we go along" conditions.

But this time there is a lot of opposition so I guess it just won't work.

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by Pekka
The other side is in the EU. Turkey is not in the EU yet. It doesn't exactly have lots of barganing chips. Requirements are set.

Now, it's fair to ask, if the requirements are the same for everyone. Maybe not. But this changes nothing.

The EU, by admitting the south, complicated the issue of a solution tremendously. The subsequent Greek Cypriot rejection of the UN plan further made the EU directly responsible for the current situation.

However, since the EU has no responsible mechanism for crafting foreign policy, and in the light of the mess it helped create, it cannot help but try to boil the Cyprus issue down to a procedural list of requirements totally unrelated to the realities and the nature of the Cyprus problem.

[Pekka]

Maybe, but the reality is, Greece is in the EU and Turkey is not. When Turkey has a problem with Greece and vice versa, it basically is EU member having a problem with a country that is not yet a member but applicant.

You can throw blame everywhere, but the situation is Turkey is not offering anything to the extent that EU could look away some of the problems and just get over it. That being so, it must meet the requirements.

You can start negotiatons from premise that EU is in the wrong, when you are trying to get in. That's just a failing strategy, drawing dead.

Rhetorics also is drawing dead. What that translates into is if there should be real negotiations now, further efforts are not needed that much. And efforts will benefit Turkey, it's basically Turkey making itself a better place, so there is absolutely no need to lower any requirements.

This is far more important with Turkey than smaller nations. Why? Because once Turkey is EU member, it's a big player. It won't take the backseat just like that. THis means, that smaller nations will be driven by again, and big rulers like France and Germany will now have an equivalent. So there needs to be one format. It's difficult as it is now, so no reasons to make decision making even more difficult with two formats. There is a risk of 3 way satellites. First, the big nations that are throwing their weight around now, and small nations trying to put their ducks straight and work against that. Turkey would be one single satellite, so a 3-way won't work. It needs to assimilate more. It's not EU joining Turkey, it's Turkey joining EU. It's not creating EU+Turkey, it's expanding EU. So you are to be part of EU, not the other way around.

The economical risks are in the air also, with new countries joining in, all the bad economies around, it'll cost a lot as it is now.

Basically this all means, if requirements are not met, Turkey needs a huge treasure to offer. OR meet the requirements. THat's it. EU is not a charity and no one has any rights to join it. It's a club basically, and one gets in, one doesn't walk in.

Hey, no one has to like it, but that's the way it is. If there's not enough humble attitude towards that, it is, again, drawing dead.

If you want to make Cyprus a problem, then there won't be any future. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter that much, what Turkey needs to do is adjust to EU, not the other way around. This seems to be difficult to grasp for many.

[Pekka]

but don't get me wrong. I personally do think that Turkey is one of the most exciting prospects in the whole EU thing and the future. I do think there's the biggest potential when thinking about EU and its future, in many ways and in many levels. I do want to see Turkey as a member, but I just hope it's able to make those transitions and adjustments FIRST.

And I wish it would stop using rhetorics. That's just so .. Chirac.



And there are other reasons that I think and you must agree that are stupid, hindering Turkey's path to EU. Islamophobia, the conception that once in EU, there will be 30 million unemployed Turks in EU roaming freely etc. These are not the issues that are in my mind and I feel they aren't even real threats or about to happen so.. do note that these are not my arguments or fears. I happen to stalk this Turkish chick right now who works in kebab joint near where I live so .. you can't get me on the racism charges

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Winston
If Greece should be scolded/isolated, it should be for its obstructive and harassing behaviour surrounding Macedonia at a time when this new nation was struggling for recognition from the international community. An absolute disgrace that was.

if you want to be a new country you should play fair and not steal other people's names and history

you cant relate cause you're probably from a country that doesnt have much of history to steal

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Ancyrean
The EU, by admitting the south, complicated the issue of a solution tremendously.

only the refuse of Turkey to remove their OCCUPATION FORCES from a UN-recognized country complicates the cyprus issue.

[atawa]

Originally posted by MarkG
if you want to be a new country you should play fair and not steal other people's names and history

you cant relate cause you're probably from a country that doesnt have much of history to steal

I always thought Greece was part of Macedonia during Alexander