So how did the destruction of New Orleans happen?

[DanS]

Backup for my assertion that the first forced evacuation without a catastrophic hurricane would be the last forced evacuation...

10:53 P.M. - (AP): As flood waters slowly receded by the inch Tuesday, New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin authorized law enforcement officers and the U.S. military to force the evacuation of all residents who refuse to heed orders to leave the dark, dangerous city.

Nagin's emergency declaration released late Tuesday states that those who can be compelled to leave include people who are on private property or just don't wish to flee, unless they have been designated by government officials as helping with the relief effort. The move comes after some citizens informed authorities who had come to deliver them out of New Orleans that they would not leave their homes and property.

While acknowledging that the declaration had been made, police Capt. Marlon Defillo said when contacted late Tuesday that any forced removal of citizens had not yet begun. He said that those who were visiting homes were still reminding people that police may not be able to rescue them if they stay.

"That would be a P.R. nightmare for us," Defillo said of any forced evacuations. "That's an absolute last resort."

Repeated telephone calls to Nagin's spokeswoman, Tami Frazier, were not returned for comment.

[Tingkai]

Magic Marker Strategy
By John Tierney
NYT

Instead of relying on a "Good Samaritan" policy - the fantasy in New Orleans that everyone would take care of the neighbors - the Virginia rescue workers go door to door. If people resist the plea to leave, Mr. Judkins told The Daily Press in Newport News, rescue workers give them Magic Markers and ask them to write their Social Security numbers on their body parts so they can be identified.

"It's cold, but it's effective," Mr. Judkins explained.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/06/opinion/06tierney.html

[Patroklos]

Reports fron the USS Tortuga, which is a local ship so it was on the local news, was that the people they are rescueing reported that people came to get them to evacuate at gunpoint earlier, but they were scared so they hid from them.

Americans can't force an evacuation.

[SpencerH]

In all honesty I'm a little disquieted about the forced evacuation of people from their homes (despite the obvious need for it).

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Reports fron the USS Tortuga, which is a local ship so it was on the local news, was that the people they are rescueing reported that people came to get them to evacuate at gunpoint earlier, but they were scared so they hid from them.

Americans can't force an evacuation.

Do you mean legally (which they can do) or politically?

[DanS]

I read it to mean practically speaking, it's damn near impossible to do. People don't view it as the government's perogative to tell you to evacuate, so they hide from the people coming to force them to evacuate.

As I was asking in another thread, is there any precedent at all in the US for a forced evacuation, other than the Japanese internment and the Indian forced movements?

[chequita guevara]

I think this would be a first.

[SpencerH]

I'd think that there is sufficient precedent to allow forced evacuation on the basis of the public health risk.

[chequita guevara]

I'm not opposed to it.

[DanS]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I'd think that there is sufficient precedent to allow forced evacuation on the basis of the public health risk.

Ahhh, yes. Hadn't thought of that. They used to do quarantines with much greater frequency. Most of the time that meant keeping people in their houses, though.

[DanS]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I'm not opposed to it.

I'm not opposed to it, just uneasy...

[Patroklos]

Do you mean legally (which they can do) or politically?

I meant practically, I just don't think people will go along with it or resist it violently.

And to be honest, I think you would find it hard to find enough people willing to carry out the order. How far do you go to force someone to leave?

[DanS]

Apparently, the forced evacuations announced by the mayor have been vetoed by the governor and the regular military is not going to be participating in any of it. There is an obvious, continued lack of communication between the city and the state governments. Maybe the mayor will tell the governor to piss off and have his city police department force people out.

Confusion Reigns Over Forced Evacuations
Bush May Ask Congress for $50B in Immediate Aid

By Daniela Deane and Jacqueline L. Salmon
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, September 7, 2005; 1:30 PM

Confusion reigned Wednesday over whether officials will force people out of their homes in New Orleans.

A Louisiana official said this morning the state won't make people leave their homes in the besieged city just one day after New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin authorized law enforcement officers and the military to force the evacuation of all residents who refuse to leave. Released late Tuesday, Nagin's emergency declaration targets all those still in New Orleans who have not been designated by government officials as helping with the relief effort.

As the controversy over forced evacuations deepened, administration officials said President Bush will be asking Congress for as much as $50 billion in immediate aid for the Hurricane Katrina catastrophe.

White House Press spokesman Scott McLellan said the $10.5 billion down payment approved last week "is being spent more quickly than we even anticipated."

"There will be more that will be needed," he said.

In the first government estimate of Katrina's economic impact, the bipartisan Congressional Budget Office said the damage could cost as many as 400,000 jobs in the coming months and slash the nation's economic growth by between half and one percentage point in the second half of the year.

"Evidence to date suggests that overall economic effects will be significant but not overwhelming," the CBO said in a letter to lawmakers. The CBO said the expected cost is less than initially thought because of progress in opening oil refineries and restarting pipelines in the region. Government officials have called Katrina one of the biggest natural disasters in U.S. history.

Meanwhile in Baton Rouge, La., Ed Jones, chief of disaster recovery and mitigation for the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security, said the decision to use the military and state rescue personnel to forcibly evacuate citizens from New Orleans lies with the governor, not with the mayor.

National Guard and state rescue workers have not received any communication from Mayor Nagin about forcing people out of their homes and an order to take such action would need to come from the governor, said Jones at disaster headquarters in Baton Rouge.

At this point, Jones said, National Guard and state rescue workers "will not force people out."

"It's a very tough decision to force an American out of their home," Jones said.

But later in New Orleans, Police Supt. Eddie Compass said city officials would go forward with the mayor's plan. He said once the "voluntary evacuations take place, then we will concentrate our efforts and forces to mandatorily evacuate residents."

Compass said thousands of people still wanted to voluntarily evacuate the city.

"We hope that most people cooperate," Compass said. "We have a large enough manpower force with the army and the state, city and federal agencies to do this expeditiously and as safe as possible." Compass said authorities will use "the minimal amount of force necessary to evacuate people from the city."

Officials said the authority for the mandatory evacuation order came through state statutes.

As of midday Wednesday, there were no reports of anyone being removed by force, according to wire service reports.

Several New Orleans residents, quoted by the Associated Press, said they had heard the mayor's order to evacuate and were reluctantly complying.

Dolores Devron, who left the city with her husband and her dog, said she was relieved the couple was allowed to take their pet with them but angry that they were ordered out.

"There are dead babies tied to poles and they're dragging us out and leaving the dead babies. That ain't right!" she screamed, according to the AP.

Lt. Gen. Joseph Inge, deputy commander of the U.S. Northern Command, said in a briefing with reporters at the Pentagon in Washington that civil authorities were discussing the forced evacuation issue.

He said National Guard troops were under the authority of Louisiana officials. He said regular U.S. troops "would not be used" in any forced evacuation.

"I understand that this is an issue," Inge said.

Jones said in Baton Rouge that the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, has authorized $200 million for New Orleans and its surrounding parishes affected by the hurricane.

Aid to individuals affected by the flood -- including vouchers for food and housing and food stamps -- is expected to flow later today, he said. The biggest problem, he said, is getting phones and computers to people affected by the hurricane and either still stuck in homes or scattered in shelters in dozens of states to allow them to register with FEMA.

Also today, Doug Thornton, vice president of the firm that manages the Superdome, said the structure sustained "severe" damage, and estimated that repairing the facility will cost at least $100 million.

But, he said, it was premature to consider tearing the state-owned facility down, home of the New Orleans Saints, and officials won't have a firm estimate of the full extent of the damage for two months. Replacing the 30-year-old structure could cost up to $600 million, he said.

"We would like to salvage that building," said Thornton, noting that it hosted a papal visit, a presidential nomination and collegiate basketball championships. Structurally, he said, the facility is "steady as a rock."

In a briefing at the disaster command center in Baton Rouge, La., Thornton also detailed the extensive damage to the structure after it was battered by Hurricane Katrina and then used to shelter 25,000 people for five brutal days after the storm.

During the ordeal, those sheltering there reported assaults, rapes and suicides. Human waste piled up and food and water ran out. Thornton said that much of the damage was caused when 70 percent of the roof failed after winds up to 170 miles per hour ripped off exhaust fans on the roof and began tearing off the rubberized surface of the roof.

"Once you start peeling one piece of it off, it started peeling like an onion," said Thornton. He estimated that repairing the roof will cost $8 million alone.

Deane reported from Washington and Salmon reported from Baton Rouge.

[SpencerH]

The news people are reporting conversations with the NO chief of police saying that they will forcibly remove people to an evac center if they cant convince them to leave peaceably but wont arrest them (which doesnt make sense to me). How does a policeman forcibly remove someone who isnt under arrest for breaking some law?

[My Wife Hates CIV]

'So how did the destruction of New Orleans happen? '

???

A big ass storm came through and wipe it out? i saw it on the news. how could you miss it??