So how did the destruction of New Orleans happen?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by DanS
What I'm interested in is the fact that FEMA under Brown was said to do a good job in 2004 with the hurricanes in Florida. What changed between then and now? Could it be that New Orleans really doesn't get hit with too many hurricanes and therefore the locals weren't prepared? The Florida officials deal with hurricanes hitting someplace in the state every year.

Who exactly was "saying" this?

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by DanS
What I'm interested in is the fact that FEMA under Brown was said to do a good job in 2004 with the hurricanes in Florida. What changed between then and now? Could it be that New Orleans really doesn't get hit with too many hurricanes and therefore the locals weren't prepared? The Florida officials deal with hurricanes hitting someplace in the state every year.

I think there is something to this opinion. You hardly here any news about AL and that's not because Katrina missed us. Mobile is not that far from Gulfport and it was hit pretty hard by the surge (as were the beach properties further east). I think the difference is that this is the 3rd or 4th hurricane that has hit us over the last 3 years and we're better prepared.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Who exactly was "saying" this?

Moi.

I think Sandman's statement, "It's not an election year, and it's not a key state?" is part of it. We are also better prepared for hurricanes. When one is expected to strike, the whole state government goes into crisis mode, sets up a war room, and gets **** done. My grudging respect for Jeb increased last year. I think part of it has to do with the Bushes' father's fubar in Homestead, FL 13 years ago, and not wanting to be seen as similarly incompetent (too late George!). I have heard rumors, but have not seen substantion, that the LA gov waited to call for Federal assistance. That would similarly hamper FEMA's effectiveness, though they should have been prepared to move regardless.

Without a doubt, the government of LA and NO bear the preponderence of guilt for the catastrophe. The Feds, however, should have been ready to come in the moment they were called. As soon as the governor made the phone call, there should have been FEMA agents in the air with food and water on the way.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
Hmm. Everything I've read indicates that New Orleans was struck by a Category 4 hurricane that had previously been a Category 5 storm (it was weakened a bit by a puff of dry air coming in from the Upper Midwest).

A storm is not one giant entity. The center of the storm is the strongest part, and the winds diminish the further out you go. When Katrina made landfall in LA, it was definately a Cat 4. The distance from the center, plus the fact that the winds there were moving in the opposite direction from the direction of the storm mean that NOLA only got 100mph winds while Biloxi and Gulfport got up to 130mph winds. That's Cat 2 on the Saffir-Simpson Scale in NOLA.

Wind and geography conspired against the Gulf Coast in terms of storm surge. With the winds blowing from the Southeast, water piled up in the Mississippi Sound and Lake Bourgone (which isn't a real lake) with no way out, so the water just kept piling up. Then with the low pressure center passed over, it sucked the water up even higher. This is what destroyed the Mississippi coast.

Now, some of that water probably flooded up from Lake Bourgone overland towards Lake Ponchetrain. That would put a lot of stress on the lake side levees. In addition, you have all that rainwater flowing south into the lake. More analysis will need to be done, but there is some thought that it may be the 17th St Canal levee wasn't topped. It just broke.

[Adam Smith]

techumseh:

Nice job of quoting me out of context in your sig, since we were talking about the Corps of Engineers, not the entire situation.

Molly:

Ditto for you.

Ted:

Please see the link in my 23:42 post. There is not one mention in there of upgrading the levies to handle a Category IV or V, which was clearly the most pressing problem. edit: In addition, money wasted elsewhere is money not spent in New Orleans.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Adam Smith
techumseh:

Nice job of quoting me out of context in your sig, since we were talking about the Corps of Engineers, not the entire situation.

It's not really quoting you at all. I just really liked my answer.

[DanS]

I'm trying hard not to blame the victims here. I've come to find that it's human nature to blame the victims. No different than thousands of years ago.

On the other hand, I don't think we should blame the feds just because we are disinclined to blame everybody else. I think that 99% of the damage and lives lost was not related to the federal response. It is true that the remaining 1% contained a lot of disgraceful headlines, however. Likewise, I think the locals shifting blame to the federal government is out of line. Some of them are (understandably) acting hysterical under the strain of it all.

[techumseh]

It's not just the response in isolation. Fundamentally it is the FAILURE TO ACT. To plan in advance and to budget appropriately so that key agencies like the National Guard, ACE and FEMA have the right priorities and the resources to fulfill them. In this nightmare, it was the FAILURE TO ACT which allowed the disaster to happen in the first place and which ensured that the response would be inadequate.

[Boris Godunov]

The Washington Post issued a correction on the claim that Gov. Blanco had not declared a state of an emergency soon enough. In fact, she declared one on August 26.

Where did their wrong info come from? Why, according to the original article, an unnamed "senior administration official." Hmm, did someone at the White House feed deliberate misinformation to the media in an attempt to deflect criticism back onto local officials? That might appear to be the case, since Newsweek ran the same claim, only hasn't corrected it as of yet. And since one Karl Rove has taken charge of the WH's communications regarding the disaster...well, all I can say is, it's deja vu all over again.

[chequita guevara]

[Boris Godunov]

Washington, too, was slow to react to the crisis. The Pentagon, under Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, was reluctant for the military to take a lead role in disaster relief, a job traditionally performed by FEMA and by the National Guard, which is commanded by state governors. President Bush could have "federalized" the National Guard in an instant. That's what his father, President George H.W. Bush, did after the Los Angeles riots in 1992. Back then, the Justice Department sent Robert Mueller, a jut-jawed ex-Marine (who is now FBI director), to take charge, showing, in effect, that the cavalry had arrived. FEMA's current head, Michael Brown, has appeared over his head and even a little clueless in news interviews. He is far from the sort of take-charge presence New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani conveyed after 9/11.

Up to now, the Bush administration has not hesitated to sweep aside the opinions of lawyers on such matters as prisoners' rights. But after Katrina, a strange paralysis set in. For days, Bush's top advisers argued over legal niceties about who was in charge, according to three White House officials who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the negotiations. Beginning early in the week, Justice Department lawyers presented arguments for federalizing the Guard, but Defense Department lawyers fretted about untrained 19-year-olds trying to enforce local laws, according to a senior law-enforcement official who requested anonymity citing the delicate nature of the discussions.

While Washington debated, the situation in New Orleans and along the Gulf Coast deteriorated. Bush traveled to the region in part to work out a deal with local officials to establish a clearer chain of command. By the weekend, federal officials said there could be tens of thousands of troops in New Orleans in short order. Saturday, Bush pledged to return to the region on Monday—and to deploy 7,000 additional active-duty troops under the Pentagon's control. But for many, the help was arriving too late. Officials worked through the weekend trying to hammer out the jurisdictional issues.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179587/page/5/

Infuriating. Unbelievably infuriating.

[chequita guevara]

And people still want to defend them!

[DanS]

As much as it infuriating, the response failure probably caused a very, very small portion of the loss of life and property. The response from the Feds and locals didn't lead to the destruction of New Orleans.

[Jon Miller]

and where do you get this from?

even 100 lives (while small compared to the total that lived in New Orleans) is too many

and I could well beleive 1000s..

and that is as many as Al Queda killed in 9/11

Jon Miller

[DanS]

and where do you get this from?

It's a SWAG. I'm guessing that 10,000 to 20,000 people died -- we can go through the backup for this guess. The vast majority of those who died, and an even greater portion of the property damage (i.e., the destruction of New Orleans, the topic of this thread), was caused by the (1) levee breaches; and (2) the inadequate pre-storm evacuation. A lot of ugly stuff happened afterward, don't get me wrong. But if everybody would have been Johnny on the Spot after the levee breeches, the general scope of the loss of life and property would be very similar. I'm keeping in mind the fact that search and rescue teams seem to have done well, considering the circumstances.