A neo-feminist's view of abstinence

[Ben Kenobi]

Still, I now have to call myself a paleo-feminist. And I am not actually that paleo-. 1890s feminists were rather sexist and reactionary.

So, then this lady should be calling herself a proper feminist, and leave the neo- to the new age ones.

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So, then this lady should be calling herself a proper feminist, and leave the neo- to the new age ones.

"Feminist" is a neologism being applied to a historical context in my sentence, though. Those people called themselves Suffragists and advocates of Women's Rights. Same fight, different era.

It is curious that Blair's Neo-Liberalism and blather of Third Way resembles the cocktail of Classical Liberalism most. Libertarians sometimes try to claim its mantle of laissez-faire and social sanity, but they are erroneous in that -- they are no closer to Classical Liberalism than SocDems are.

As for Conservatism... well, it's platform used to be Good Old Days (these days, US Conservatives aim more for Counter-Liberalism than actual Conservatism, which is rather dumb on their part). Its inception lies with various brands of Royalism, Monarchism, and advocacy of a Restoration.

This post is also largely blather. Blah.

[Mr. Harley]

OK - I'll bite (at the troll, that is).

St. Leo, I have NO idea of what Boann's life was like, but I can tell you from personal experience, and my wife doing intake assessments for children and adolescents at a large, federally mandate mental health group (weird local complexity) that self-respect can be very difficult for some people. It's call - context.

Now I was fortunate. My mother realized my father's flaws in time to intervene. However, my older brother was not so lucky, and pretty much had his self-esteem, self-respect, and a large part of his personality flattened. This from the time period good Catholics don't get divorced, Dad's are obviously going to rougher on boys, and suck it up mentality.

My wife had several children, daily, coming in, who would have envied my brother. This was on a daily basis for TWO years (and is related to why she stopped working there). What I am establishing background here for is that it is not quite so easy as you propose, for many people.

Do they need to get over it. Yes, if they are going to have a life. Plus, doing the revenge/anger/bitterness stage, living well is truly the best revenge. But, and here is the critical thing, due to personality, life situation, or simple rotten luck some people don't. To give you an example, the girl who is raped but has family support, finds a good counselor, and who has her head on straight anyway, has a much better chance to deal with that trauma than...

The girl who was mentally browbeaten day after day, derided constantly, with the only positive attention, if one can call it that, over her looks and if she put out for a boyfriend. Maybe she was abused by a parent, relative, or someone in a position of authority. To rant at someone, without knowing the context of their rant, shows you to be, well, I will let co-posters draw their own conclusions.

Have you been through a divorce, paticularly a nasty one after a bad marraige? It can devastate people's self-esteem, especially if the spouse was abusive. Try maybe asking questions instant of having a verbal temper tantrum, and you may actually convince. Unless, of course, you have no intention of doing that, and only want to impress others via your unpleasantness. Which FYI very seldom works, in case you have not figured it out yet.

[Sava]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc

My wife had several children, daily,

this sounds funny when I take it out of context!

[Kuciwalker]

I had to read that twice.

[Sava]

My wife had several children coming in daily who would have envied my brother

much better

[Mr. Harley]

I'm tired and running on coffee. Grammar Nazis.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
I'm tired and running on coffee. Grammar Nazis.

I think they is out in full force tonight shawnmcc, might need to get the grammar hitman out in full suit

[Mr. Harley]

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
But yes, I fear that those who stick to abstinence until marriage don't have respect for themselves, just like those who'll screw everything that moves.

They won't trust their own judgment, but will conform.

I couldn't agree more. As Che said, feminism is about empowerment to do what you want to, what you feel comfortable with, rather than what society says you should. That means not being pressured into sex, or motherhood, or staying at home, or employment, or abstinance. Everyone should have that choice.

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Feminism is about choice, the coice not to have sex, the choice to have sex with a few people, the choice to be a "slut."

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Sex is a great form of entertainment, and there's nothing wrong with that. It is also a way to express one's feelings for another, deeping and strengthen bonds, etc. I don't think one should cancel out the other.

Couldn't agree more. Sex can be many things to many people, and someone's desire for it to be special shouldn't stop someone else enjoying it as a form of entertainment.

[Dis]

I just don't think it's healthy to repress sexual desire in the brain. Call me crazy.

[boann]

crazy

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Drogue

I couldn't agree more. As Che said, feminism is about empowerment to do what you want to, what you feel comfortable with, rather than what society says you should. That means not being pressured into sex, or motherhood, or staying at home, or employment, or abstinance. Everyone should have that choice.

.

I thought feminism was about ending social pressures that were gender specific. I dont think all feminists were necessarily opposed to all social pressures - I think the movement was historically broader, than that.

[St Leo]

Thanks, shawnmmcc.

You are right. Context is important.

I perceived the column as a direct personal attack on me and what I stand for by a Coulter-clone, so I threw up a defense that was intended more to proclaim my existence than to make any sort of genuine outreach towards the writer's side.

The circumstances are much more likely to be what you described. There are some troublesome things in our society, and it's not hard to find oneself in an abusive, nerve-wrecking, coercive situation. One would hope such things are on a decrease, but it seems that wilful ignorance and other social poisons are in an upswing of popularity.

I am not sure what genuine message I could actually offer, as the person who wrote that doesn't post on these forums. But, again, thanks for your critique.

[Mr. Harley]

St. Leo - I was wondering if you had a bad day, I wasn't sure. Apologies that I started to get a bit irked towards the end - as I explained my context, my brother who I still love will never be right, and he no more has the ability to keep his life "normal" than a quadraplegic. Sorry I started to get personal there, I broke my own rules.