Going to college unready for it

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by rah
When 75% of the student make the honor roll, it ceases to be an honor.

Amen

[Rufus T. Firefly]

The real problem is that too many students are going to college. I suspect that for most of American history, most high school students have graduated without the skills required for college. But now, because we no longer have an economy that can absorb them without more education, they're all cluttering up classrooms. Of course, we also have too many damned colleges, so there will always be someplace willing to stoop to accepting the unprepared.

[Kuciwalker]

Rufus gets it

[GePap]

I think the US could benefit from a system closer to the Gemrna model were not all students go to a University, but that places students in different tracks based on apptitude and choice. I think many people going to college do it simply because they believe work without a college degree is impossible. And they are probably right.

That said, I still think American high schools dumb things down too many times, and I agree that education should be in the hands of experts, not parental boards.

[mrmitchell]

In Arkansas, at least in theory, teachers get a huge binder full of specific things that students must know before the end of the year, and the teaching of these things is documented and all objectives are checked off by the end of the year.

Of course, you can't make it foolproof in reality, but education has improved, and as we throw more money at it, it will get better.

Of course, we also have too many damned colleges, so there will always be someplace willing to stoop to accepting the unprepared.

How many colleges should there be? What makes a college unworthy of being there?

EDIT: Just to clear things up - the binder of objectives that gets thrown at teachers is from the state Department of Education, which is generally filled with eggheads and brainiacs appointed by merit.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by mrmitchell How many colleges should there be? What makes a college unworthy of being there?

As many as you need to educate your college-ready population.

In fairness, the problem is perhaps not the number of colleges, but the number of seats they need to fill -- which amounts to the same thing. College enrollment expanded dramatically during the baby boom, both for demographic reasons and because being in college kept young men out of Vietnam. The problem is, once colleges got used to those huge numbers, they were reluctant to shrink again. The result is a need to accept students who are not equipped fro college, and wouldn't have been accepted at one even a generation ago.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You know, ever since conservatives started trying to "fix" public education, it's been getting poorer and poorer results. Is there anything these people can do right?

Demonizing others and blaming "them" for everything, especially when it's the conservatives' own doing.

[:) Smiley]

Here's an idea - if high school isn't teaching anything and everyone needs a college degree, why not compress the lack of curriculum into 9 years, and have people go to college after junior high?

There is a similar system in most of Asia. High school requires an entrance exam, and you can choose to go to any high school as long as you qualify, as in do better than everyone else who wants to go to that school.

Not surprisingly, these students have skills at 9th grade equal to 12th in America. When they graduate from high school they beat our college students. Their college students fill about 1/2 the graduate positions in our universities, more in the sciences.

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Meanwhile, in the good ol USA, junior high students waste three years learning about gangs, drugs, sex, and football.

Is it any wonder that we end up with the gang, drug, sex, and football industries while high tech jobs go overseas?

[Sikander]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You know, ever since conservatives started trying to "fix" public education, it's been getting poorer and poorer results. Is there anything these people can do right?

Wrong. Educational test results dropped regularly for over a decade for people born between 1952-1963. After that they more or less stabilized with no discernable long term trend. The drop was so precipitous that there is little doubt that a number of factors were at work, from the lowering of teacher quality due to increased opportunities for women in the workplace to the huge amount of increased stress on families as the divorce rate rose to 50% to the rise of television and the decline of reading, to the steady increase in the numbers of Americans for whom english is a second language.

[Ted Striker]

I have heard it mentioned that our primary schools still outperform almost all other countries (except for a second language).

Our college system is still the best in the world.

But our high schools just completely suck.

So the front and the back of the education system still works well but the middle is lacking.

And stop blaming teachers again Sikander.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
The real problem is that too many students are going to college. I suspect that for most of American history, most high school students have graduated without the skills required for college. But now, because we no longer have an economy that can absorb them without more education, they're all cluttering up classrooms. Of course, we also have too many damned colleges, so there will always be someplace willing to stoop to accepting the unprepared.

I agree completely. Actually I think the real problem is the emphasis people place on getting a 4 year degree when for most people a life long learning concept where people learn only the skills they need as they need them would be a better plan. (I of course don't object to people taking electives which interest them as well.) We should start reducing the amount of money we are pouring into 4 year institutions and instead make sure that we have quality community colleges nationwide.

Like several others I was often disappointed that many of my college courses were weaker than my high school courses, even though it usually meant an easy A for me.

[Ben Kenobi]

Like several others I was often disappointed that many of my college courses were weaker than my high school courses, even though it usually meant an easy A for me.

It's very discouraging.

[Sava]

LEAVE ALL CHILDREN BEHIND!


GO BUSH!

[DaShi]

I think the problem is that many students don't drink enough in high school, therefore when they reach college they are unprepared for the demands that meet them there. If every high school had a bar across the street, then students would learn how to pass tests after an all-night bender.

[Jon Shafer]

Personally, I think it's more attitude and behavior than anything. When I first got to college a few years back it was surprising to see how many people would skip class, fail to do their work and simply not care about how well they did. I suppose that's what happens when a sizable chunk of the population finds college a good excuse to party all the time.