So I was told I'm a Republican...

[chequita guevara]

The sin-eater was (in British tradition) a person who, through ritual means and for material gain, would take on the sins of a dying person, thus absolving the dying of their sins while receiving the burden of the same. Traditionally, each village maintained its own sin-eater. The sin-eater would be brought to the dying person's bedside, and there either he or a relative would place a bit of bread on the breast of the dying. After praying and/or reciting the ritual, he would then remove the bread from the breast and eat it, the act of which would remove the sin from the dying and take it into himself.

From Wiki

[molly bloom]

I've certainly heard of them in South Wales.

I dimly recall a short story about one...

[Patroklos]

What are you applying it too though?

[chequita guevara]

Nevermind, it was just a lame attempt to be a smartass.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Is it a necessary job? Yes. Is it a nasty job? Yes. Is it a job anyone could do who has a modicum of sense? Yes. Nearly anyone could be a strawberry picker, BTW. But it pays **** and is brutal, backbreaking work. Most of won't pick strawberries, not can't. The same goes for sanitation services. Most people won't do it, not can't do it.

These things can be said of any job, including doctors (and especially web designers).


The only things a person needs to do something is 1) The will to do it, 2) The means to do it, and 3) The training or experience to do it well.

[chequita guevara]

Ludd, you are arguing opinion against facts. Facts just are. You can't wish them away because they offend your moral code. Society, which is what we are talking about here, currently decides the value of people based upon the market. People are just as much commodities in capitalism as anything else, and thus subject to the same rules in the market place. It may suck, but that's how it is.

I may think there's no redeming value to web design, maybe because it comes so frikkin' easy to me. Society, however, thinks it's worth as much as $100K a year. I'm not gonna argue with someone trying to pay me that much money.

And while anyone can make a web page, not everyone can make a web page that will get them paid absurd amounts of money. Just cuz you can take a picture, it does not mean you are Ansel Adams. Just cuz you can paint, it doesn't mean you are Picasso. No amount of training will ever make you Picasso either. You either got it or you don't.

There is no Picasso of sanitation. Baring some certain physical or mental problems, anyone can be a janitor.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Ludd, you are arguing opinion against facts. Facts just are. You can't wish them away because they offend your moral code.

Society, which is what we are talking about here, currently decides the value of people based upon the market. People are just as much commodities in capitalism as anything else, and thus subject to the same rules in the market place. It may suck, but that's how it is.

And what I'm saying, is that the decisions "society" has made in regard to how it views certain jobs are wrong, and a tiered system of pay is inferinetly unfair because it is impossible to accurate quantify the value of one job over another, particularily whenas the most important jobs are also the least appretiated and most abundant. (Basically, the importance and dire neccecisty of the job undercuts it's own value)

[chequita guevara]

That's your opinion. Again, your opinion is not what we are discussing, but objective reality.

[General Ludd]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by chegitz guevara

And while anyone can make a web page, not everyone can make a web page that will get them paid absurd amounts of money.[.quote]

Potentially, most people can. (although few would want to)

Just cuz you can take a picture, it does not mean you are Ansel Adams. Just cuz you can paint, it doesn't mean you are Picasso. No amount of training will ever make you Picasso either. You either got it or you don't.

Of course no amount of training will ever make you picasso.... he's an individual! If you go into art with the intention of being someone else, you've obviously got a lot yet to learn. Picasso is not famous because of his ability to paint, he is famous for his ability to see, analyse, express, and create, or more specifically - his experience and passion as an artist. Painting while obviously an essential part of his work, was merely one medium.

Can anyone learn to be an artist? Certainly, if they have the passion for it, a means of creating their work, and an environment to learn in.

Like I said before, there are three thigns you need - The Will, The Means, and The Experience. Each one is equaly important and useless without the other two. Someone with the Will and the Means but no experience is nothing but a novice, someone with the Will and Experience but no means, is unable to do anything, and someone with the means and experience but no will to do it will never shine. Very few people ever get to a place in their life where they can meet all three criteria in what they do, unfortunetly.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That's your opinion. Again, your opinion is not what we are discussing, but objective reality.

Actually, what we are discussing is Frankychan's opinion:

Should everyone be paid the same wage? HELL NO. It should be a tiered system. Doctors should never be paid the same as a janitor...

And even if we where discussing "objective reality" my opinion would still be just as valid. Handy way of closing down any debate you don't like, that.

[chequita guevara]

If you were trapped on a desert island with one other person, would you rather they be a doctor or a janitor?

[General Ludd]

I'd rather that they where a gardener or fisher.


What good is a doctor on a desert island?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by General Ludd
Can anyone learn to be an artist?

No, anyone cannot learn to be an artist. You either are or aren't. No amount of training will ever make you an artist if you just don't have the talent. You could even be technically flawless, but it you don't have the spark or the vision.

[Japher]

One man's lack of vision is another man's taste in art...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by General Ludd
I'd rather that they where a gardener or fisher.

Those weren't offered options.

What good is a doctor on a desert island?

So the problem is that you are stupid, then? You are, I presume, aware that the wilderness is a rather dangerous place, yes? You don't think that a person who could fix you up might have something valuable to contribute, in case you get hurt or sick?