just. plain. STUPID.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yeah, but conservatives have been saying this crap for over twenty years, so I'm disinclined to believe them now.

I'm not hearing this from "conservatives"

I'm hearing this from educators that work within the school systems themselves.

[Kaak]

che: stop making a partisan argument.

And for the record, I think i'm at least as educated as you are che

[Kaak]

.

[Kaak]

.

[Ben Kenobi]

As for black history and the like, the very idea is crap. If normal history education is one-sided or unbalanced, the solution is to rectify that, not teaching additional one-sided and unbalanced versions of history.

QFT!

[Q Classic]

Basically guys, this is how it works. Ebonics speakers are perfectly well understood by speakers of standard English. So if communication isn't the issue, then whats the problem? The problem is simple, Ebonics speakers are black. If you think its any more complicated than this you're fooling yourself.

1. If you posit that Ebonics speakers are perfectly understood by speakers of standard American English, then there is absolutely no reason to localize the educational curriculum to speakers of Ebonics. Why? Because if the languages/dialects are mutually intelligible, there is no reason in spending anything on localization when the money can be spent elsewhere on more critical needs. After all, the southern rural dialect is (mostly) mutually intelligible with Standard American English (SAE)--but we don't see a move towards making books in Ware Co., Ga, to have words like "a-fixin'" and what not, do we? Furthermore, even if Ebonics were understandable to speakers of SAE, there's no guarantee that it would be comprehensible to speakers of English in the Rural South; thus, educating them in SAE might be the wisest course. Such is the case in many other countries, education in a standard dialect. Japan and Korea, for instance, teach Standard dialects of their language (based around Tokyo and Seoul, respectively)--and even though there is great regional variation, sometimes to the point of causing difficulty in understanding between other dialects, everyone can speak and understand Standard Japanese or Korean. Why should it be any different with Standard American English?

2. If you posit that Ebonics is a different language than English, then there is absolutely no reason to _not_ continue educating the students in SAE. As most of the economy is based on service, and a large fraction of upward mobility hinges on the ability to cater to groups other than your own in this melting pot--as well as advanced educational opportunities--crippling students who only speak Ebonics by not teaching them the basics in SAE will only be a disservice to them. Not only will they have more difficulty in getting into college, but they'll have problems trying to communicate with a wide variety of people who speak other dialects or regionalisms of English, many of which might not truly be intelligible with this different language. Most foreigners, particularly from Asia, Europe, and Africa, are forced to learn SAE as a second language in order to even function in this society; why should we make exception to those who only speak Ebonics or Spanish? Especially when most of those other immigrants already have a hard enough time understanding SAE+whatever regionalisms there may be?

3. If you suggest that there is racism at work here at suggesting that we not recognize and teach Ebonics to students, then you're only half-right. There are many Asian ghettos throughout the United States; sometimes, they're known as "Chinatown". If there is to be government funding for what you consider a dialect of English, namely Ebonics, there should be government funding for other dialects of English as well--I'd like to see more texts written in Chinglish, Konglish, and Janglish, for one. Otherwise, you're just being discriminatory towards East Asians. That's not even considering Southeast Asians, Africans, or Latin Americans. And hell, you're being discriminatory towards rural Southerners--but then again, it's okay to make fun of disenfranchised, poor, white hillbillies, but not okay to make fun of disenfranchised urban blacks?

4. Indeed, if you equate not teaching Ebonics as a refusal to teach Black heritage, then I'm mystified at why the entire month of February was even appropriated for it, especially with many state-mandated initiatives to inform all students, regardless of ethnicity, creed, and what not, about the great contributions that Blacks have made to our great nation.

Simply put, JimmyCC, I'm not buying your $0.02.

===

Why the hell do you call it "Ebonics", anyway?

I think it's a neologism coined from the word "Ebony", which is frequently used as another term for "Black", only for more poetic reasons.

[Kaak]

there was one for science too, but it was a bigger, more complex table. The results were about the same though, with the US coming in just below the middle of the pack.

if you want to see:

http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/58/58/33918060.pdf

[Kaak]

Originally posted by DanS
About 12% don't finish high school, which is a regrettably high number. On the other hand, university attainment is comparably very high in the US. About a third get a bachelor's degree or better. Over half attend some university.

Don't get me wrong. These are poor numbers. For instance, lots of people drop out of university. But they are better than almost all other countries.

Dan: this doesn't mean anything, other than that people can make it through our education system. It doesn't say anything about the quality thereof, or compare it to the rest of the modern world.

[Kaak]

...

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


But even Japanese schools aren't the perfect models that conseravtives like to bash us over the head with. Theben's got a book that sets a lot of that crap straight.

"But"? I bash Japanese schools, and get this in reply? WTF?

[DeathByTheSword]

But even Japanese schools aren't the perfect models that conseravtives like to bash us over the head with. Theben's got a book that sets a lot of that crap straight.

...and kaak got table that set you **** straight

you and danS got DanS'ed by Kaak and i was righ (old)

[Dis]

the fact is English isn't that useful. In the future, these kids better be learning Spanish. Esp. in California. Many jobs require you to speak spanish.

[Last Conformist]

Fewer than require English, and it will be quite some time indeed before that changes.

[Kaak]

Originally posted by Dis
the fact is English isn't that useful. In the future, these kids better be learning Spanish. Esp. in California. Many jobs require you to speak spanish.

ahahahaha....dis. The whole world speaks english buddy. i was in germany last summer. At the train station in frankfurt, an italian was talking to the ticket guy in english. even in europe, it's how people communicate.

[Dis]

that's because european langauges are stupid. . (yes, I realize spanish and english are european lanuages)

yeah I was in Europe too. And the middle east. It's not very hard to find people who speak English.

But the fact is the hispanic population is reproducing rapidly. It makes sense to learn Spanish.