"Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince" out tomorrow!

[Nacht]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Just ordered it per amazon.de

Not that I'll read it (I haven't read any HP book, but did read all the spoilers ), but it's a nice gift

To whom? Either people alreadly have read it or they probably want to start with book 1.

[Tuberski]

Spoiler:

Snape did what Dumbeldore told him he must do.

Yes, he didn't attack Harry. Yes, he says that Voldemort says not to hurt him.

But, the most telling thing to me?

Snape yelling "No Unforgivable curses from you Potter, you haven't got the nerve or the ability."

He was trying hard to keep Harry from getting ability in the Dark Arts.

ACK!

[GePap]

Originally posted by SpencerH

Spoiler:

Nice one Guy

RAG -> Regulus Black.

I wonder if he is definitely dead. That Kreacher is Harrys would suggest yes, but I wonder.

Snape is not a deatheater. I think the fight with Harry proves that. Harry cant touch him but Snape does not retaliate. That fact seems very strange given that Snape has just taken the drastic step of killing Dumbledore (against Voldemorts wishes that Malfoy do it).

One has to wonder why Dumbledore felt he had to sacrifice his life? Even weakened he had to know that he could have defeated Malfoy and the other deatheaters. Throughout the book, I repeatedly thought that the wound from the ring-Horcrux was killing him. I think he knew that he was dying. He told Snape that he was going to have to kill him (the argument in the woods) and thats why he wanted Harry to get Snape rather than madame Pomfrey. At the end, Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him not to spare him. I think that his death was indeed a 'sacrifice' that will have some magical benefit.

Snape loved Lily. He was helping her and thats why she was so good at potions. Her death is what turned him against Voldemort.

Harry will go back to school. Harry is not a Horcrux and he will not die, c'est impossible.

The last Horcrux will be the tapestry in the Blacks house (or perhaps it will be the clue to the last one).

One has to wonder how Harry will be able to collect four horcrux when collecting 2 has killed Dumbledore!

Spoiler:

I have to agree 95%. (ughh, I just agreed with Spenc 95%... Oh well). I don't know about the tapestry, but the other stuff is just what I was thinking: Having James have Lilly must definitelly have been on of the reasons Snape hated James so much, and his insults of Lilly were the sort of hurtful things someone would say if the ones they loved turned their back on them.

I think that Snape will be there for the last fight between Harry and Voldemort, and will be crucial to Harry's victory (perhaps maybe killing the snake Nagili), and will himself be killed. That's the only way i see him rehabilitated in the eyes of Harry, which is what matters, since the a paragraph of writing would rehabilitate the reader to Snape.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Spoiler:

I'm not taking the deposit back. Harry WILL die. He simply cannot live after his fight with Voldemort. The prophecy only says that one cannot live while the other survives. It doesn't say that both cannot die. Harry has Ron and Hermione as friends, but the only people who were parents to him since learning of magic, Sirius and Dumbledore, have been killed off. And when he kills Voldemort, what then? How can he continue on a 'normal' life? The alternative to death is a Frodo like existance where he just retreats from the world.

It's not about love overcoming other magic or friendship. It's about doing what is right over what is easy, and that indicates to me that Harry sacrifices himself to do what is right.

Spoiler:

Not its not. Harry does what is easy plenty of times, and sometimes it certainly helps (using the Half blood prince's book, which helps him get the potion, which helps him get crucial memory that confirms Dumbledore's story). The story is one of coming of gae, as should be obvious from the fact we have a boy coming of age. Learning that to do what is right over what is easy is important is certainly one lesson, but not the only one. The importance of friendship is another. Potter isolating himself, forcing Ginny away in order to make himself feel better at the end is "the easy thing to do", easier at least that sticking with Ginny and letting HER decide what sort of dangers she is willing to face for Harry.

In the end, even if we accept your premise, the difference boils down to, LOVE is hard, MAGIC is easy.

Oh, and on the prophecy. If your idea was correct, the prophecy makes no sense, simply because if Harry won without himself dying Voldemort under your Hoxcurx premise would still live.

Spoiler:

And remember, Rowling loves the big surprise at the tail end of her novels. This one also will be the suprise at the end of the SERIES. And the suprises have gotten bolder:

PS/SS - Quirell being possessed by Voldemort
CoS - Ginny being possessed by Voldemort through a books horcrux
PoA - Sirius being a good guy and Scabbers being Peter Pettigrew, a bad guy
GoF - Diggory dies, Voldemort comes back to full power and the Death Eaters return
OotP - Sirius dies
HBP - Dumbledore dies

What can be bigger than Dumbledore dying but Harry dying? Unless there is an "I am your father" moment (I HIGHLY doubt that, though). I don't think that Snape actually being a good guy would qualify however (neither would Draco saving Harry)... it isn't BIG enough of a shock

Spoiler:

There is a difference between novels building up to the end, and the end. Rowling needs to keep the readers coming back. Book 7 is the end. She has no need to surprise anyone, and in fact, none of the things you have said are really "surprises", they all fit within the plot. It's just that the plot is being revealed to the reader as they are revealed to Harry. You yourself said Dumbledore must die for Harry to be the grand hero. How was Dumbledore dying then "a surprise"? Had Hermione gotten offed, NOW THAT would have been a surprise as it would seem to be so random and unnecessary for the unfolding of the story.

But again, book seven is the end, where all the plot lines join and end. The Weasley;s dying would be a surprise. Draco being "rehabilitated" would be a surprise. Harry dying would run counter to the basics of the plot. We will see when book seven comes out, and I will collect.

Spoiler:

What the... ?

In Dumbledore's theory where did you get the notion that he knew what all the horcruxes were? Obviously he didn't an he admitted it. He had an idea of what they were based on his past, but the last one, he had no clue whatsoever. So it easily could have been infront of him.

Remember Dumbledore's words, since he is cleverer than most people, his mistakes end up being huger

Spoiler:

And that can very well be assumed to refer to Snape, or even to letting Tom Riddle into the school to learn wizardry in the first place, because if he hadn't, there would have never been a Lord Voldemort.

Harry being a Hoxcrux makes no sense, given what we were told how these things work, what they are.

1. If Voldemort had a piece of his own Soul in Harry, then Harry would never be able to kill Voldemort. Ginny was under the full control of Voldermort when she had a piece of his sould in a book she owned. With a piece within him Harry would certainly not really be able to function. And of course, why the hell would he not have used his own hoxcrux to aid his accension. Even if Harry had no concious knowledge of it, anymore than Ginny did, Harry would have been working for Voldemort all this time. To say "Harry is a Hoxcrux" is to ignore what we have already been told about how those thing work. Also, Voldemort wants to kill Harry-putting a piece of his own soul in a thing he expressely wants to kill makes no sense, since it would ruin is magic number 7.

2. Yes, Dumbledore does not know what 2 of the other things are because he does not know exactly were Voldermort has been all this time. But he has been able to figure out all the ones based on pieces of information he gathered about Voldemort and his goings on: how he knew to look under the demolished cottage, or in the cave, or think of Nagili, and Diary, the locket, the cup, Mavolo's ring, as Hoxcruxes. Dumbledore most obviously knows Voldermort was with Harry, he certainly knows that they were together at a moment of death. If Dumbledore believed Voldermort would be trying to do things no wizzard had ever done before- he would have gotten the slight notion that maybe Harry was one himself from the day he came up with the theory, and he has had more than enough time to check it out.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by GePap

Spoiler:

Not its not. Harry does what is easy plenty of times, and sometimes it certainly helps (using the Half blood prince's book, which helps him get the potion, which helps him get crucial memory that confirms Dumbledore's story). The story is one of coming of gae, as should be obvious from the fact we have a boy coming of age. Learning that to do what is right over what is easy is important is certainly one lesson, but not the only one. The importance of friendship is another. Potter isolating himself, forcing Ginny away in order to make himself feel better at the end is "the easy thing to do", easier at least that sticking with Ginny and letting HER decide what sort of dangers she is willing to face for Harry.

In the end, even if we accept your premise, the difference boils down to, LOVE is hard, MAGIC is easy.

Oh, and on the prophecy. If your idea was correct, the prophecy makes no sense, simply because if Harry won without himself dying Voldemort under your Hoxcurx premise would still live.

Spoiler:

JK Rowling has on a number of occasions said the books are centrally about what is right vs. what is easy. YES, Harry using the Half-Blood's Prince's book was easy. That is what got him in trouble (with SectumSempra, etc). He went with what was easy. Harry has to realize that what is easy is not always right and he has to do the difficult thing. It is central.

I never said Harry WAS the horcrux, I said he COULD be, even though I don't think he will be in the end. Rowling could throw us all for a loop. And under the Harry is a horcrux theory, one can say that a Voldemort deep inside Harry would destroy Harry from within if the living Voldemort had died.

And the prophecy could still be correct under the horcrux theory. One cannot live while the other survives. If Voldemort's last soul is within Harry, how can both live?

Spoiler:

There is a difference between novels building up to the end, and the end. Rowling needs to keep the readers coming back. Book 7 is the end. She has no need to surprise anyone, and in fact, none of the things you have said are really "surprises", they all fit within the plot. It's just that the plot is being revealed to the reader as they are revealed to Harry. You yourself said Dumbledore must die for Harry to be the grand hero. How was Dumbledore dying then "a surprise"? Had Hermione gotten offed, NOW THAT would have been a surprise as it would seem to be so random and unnecessary for the unfolding of the story.

But again, book seven is the end, where all the plot lines join and end. The Weasley;s dying would be a surprise. Draco being "rehabilitated" would be a surprise. Harry dying would run counter to the basics of the plot. We will see when book seven comes out, and I will collect.

Spoiler:

Oh please! The surprises were just to keep the readers coming back? It's part of Rowling's writings. She likes the shock at the end, not so readers say, wow, that was a surprise, maybe I'll read the next one. And yes, Dumbledore dying was a surprise even though some had predicted it. I fail to see how they weren't surprises. A prediction realized doesn't mean it fails to be a surprise. Remember earlier in thread you had people saying Dumbledore couldn't die in this one. Maybe next one, but not this one. Most people were sure of DD's death also because of the leaks.

Book 7 will end with one last massive shock. It's Rowling's signature, and the last of the series has to have a suprise far bigger than the rest. Harry dying would be one. Ron or Hermione dying could be another. Draco being 'rehabilitated' or Snape apparently coming back to the good side would not.

Spoiler:

And that can very well be assumed to refer to Snape, or even to letting Tom Riddle into the school to learn wizardry in the first place, because if he hadn't, there would have never been a Lord Voldemort.

Harry being a Hoxcrux makes no sense, given what we were told how these things work, what they are.

1. If Voldemort had a piece of his own Soul in Harry, then Harry would never be able to kill Voldemort. Ginny was under the full control of Voldermort when she had a piece of his sould in a book she owned. With a piece within him Harry would certainly not really be able to function. And of course, why the hell would he not have used his own hoxcrux to aid his accension. Even if Harry had no concious knowledge of it, anymore than Ginny did, Harry would have been working for Voldemort all this time. To say "Harry is a Hoxcrux" is to ignore what we have already been told about how those thing work. Also, Voldemort wants to kill Harry-putting a piece of his own soul in a thing he expressely wants to kill makes no sense, since it would ruin is magic number 7.

2. Yes, Dumbledore does not know what 2 of the other things are because he does not know exactly were Voldermort has been all this time. But he has been able to figure out all the ones based on pieces of information he gathered about Voldemort and his goings on: how he knew to look under the demolished cottage, or in the cave, or think of Nagili, and Diary, the locket, the cup, Mavolo's ring, as Hoxcruxes. Dumbledore most obviously knows Voldermort was with Harry, he certainly knows that they were together at a moment of death. If Dumbledore believed Voldermort would be trying to do things no wizzard had ever done before- he would have gotten the slight notion that maybe Harry was one himself from the day he came up with the theory, and he has had more than enough time to check it out.

Spoiler:

Voldemort was able to possess Ginny because she put her heart and soul into the book. We are not sure how horcruxes really work, so we can't be sure what happens when they are in living people. If Voldemort could control living horcruxes then WHY was it so risky to put it in a creature with a mind of its own, as Dumbledore says? It isn't because it may run into an accident, but because it may decide to do something that you didn't want to. It would explain why Harry could see what the actual Voldemort was doing and why they have such a link.

As for killing Harry would leave Voldemort with 6 horcruxes. It isn't like he can't make 7 again. There isn't a limit to these things.

As for Dumbledore knowing, he has made guesses, but he can't be sure. The last one he guessed was maybe something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's. I don't think he would have known if a horcrux was placed within Harry somewhere. There is no horcrux test. After all, we get no indication that Dumbledore realizes that he's got a fake horcrux in his hand when he takes the locket (as weak as he is, he should have known that).

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Spoiler:

JK Rowling has on a number of occasions said the books are centrally about what is right vs. what is easy. YES, Harry using the Half-Blood's Prince's book was easy. That is what got him in trouble (with SectumSempra, etc). He went with what was easy. Harry has to realize that what is easy is not always right and he has to do the difficult thing. It is central.

I never said Harry WAS the horcrux, I said he COULD be, even though I don't think he will be in the end. Rowling could throw us all for a loop. And under the Harry is a horcrux theory, one can say that a Voldemort deep inside Harry would destroy Harry from within if the living Voldemort had died.

And the prophecy could still be correct under the horcrux theory. One cannot live while the other survives. If Voldemort's last soul is within Harry, how can both live?

Spoiler:

The use of SectumSempra got him into minor trouble, nothing compared to the boon it was using it.

As for what is easy, hiding from Voldemort, running away, or joining with him, those would be the easy choices. Just in fighting Voldermort Harry has chosen what is hard and right. To think he must die at the end is going beyond that unnecessarily.

As for the prophesy, as long as Any party of Voldermort's soul lives, he lives. That's why it makes little sense for Harry to be Hoxcrux

Spoiler:

Oh please! The surprises were just to keep the readers coming back? It's part of Rowling's writings. She likes the shock at the end, not so readers say, wow, that was a surprise, maybe I'll read the next one. And yes, Dumbledore dying was a surprise even though some had predicted it. I fail to see how they weren't surprises. A prediction realized doesn't mean it fails to be a surprise. Remember earlier in thread you had people saying Dumbledore couldn't die in this one. Maybe next one, but not this one. Most people were sure of DD's death also because of the leaks.

Book 7 will end with one last massive shock. It's Rowling's signature, and the last of the series has to have a suprise far bigger than the rest. Harry dying would be one. Ron or Hermione dying could be another. Draco being 'rehabilitated' or Snape apparently coming back to the good side would not.

Spoiler:

If you see a plot point coming all the way before, then NO, its not a "shocking surprise". Rowling alwasy gives clues to the reader about what might be up ahead, certainly if you start to read back, you see how she was building up.

As for the last book ending in a great shock, the greatest Shock would be Harry dying and Voldermort winning, would it not? THAT would be the greatest shock of all, not Harry sacraficing himself to win. And yet, I would assume you would rule out that ending. Why, if the ending has to be the biggest shock of all.

Again, none of what has happened has been shocking. It all fits within the greater storyline, which in itself is not a particualrly shocking plot line.

The "surprise" of Dumbledore's death is who does it more than it happens anyways. Even if people said it could not happen in this book, most people thoguht Dumbledore had to die at some point- that becomes a timming issue, not whether his death is a great surprise.

Spoiler:

Voldemort was able to possess Ginny because she put her heart and soul into the book. We are not sure how horcruxes really work, so we can't be sure what happens when they are in living people. If Voldemort could control living horcruxes then WHY was it so risky to put it in a creature with a mind of its own, as Dumbledore says? It isn't because it may run into an accident, but because it may decide to do something that you didn't want to. It would explain why Harry could see what the actual Voldemort was doing and why they have such a link.

The Harry-Voldermort link was already explained, and cut. Even if we assume a something other then complete control, Voldermort would have to have something muchy deeper than just a one way link (Remember, Harry's link is more one sided, not two-way) with Harry. That has never been shown.

Spoiler:

As for killing Harry would leave Voldemort with 6 horcruxes. It isn't like he can't make 7 again. There isn't a limit to these things.

As for Dumbledore knowing, he has made guesses, but he can't be sure. The last one he guessed was maybe something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's. I don't think he would have known if a horcrux was placed within Harry somewhere. There is no horcrux test. After all, we get no indication that Dumbledore realizes that he's got a fake horcrux in his hand when he takes the locket (as weak as he is, he should have known that).

Spoiler:

And it is still nonsense for Voldermot to make a Hoxcrux that seems to derive him 0 benefit simply to then pruposely destroy it. Lucious got into terrible trouble for letting one of Voldermot's Hoxcruces be destroyed. Voldermort obviously values and treasures them deeply if he goes to great lenghts to protect and hide them.

Why should he assume otherwise? No, its obvious you can;t feel the soul part in it, probably. But again, Dumbledore has had tiome to think this out and try to piece together when Voldermot whould make one. Given that Dumbledore knows the Harry-Voldermot connection so well, Occam's Razo would point to him already having excluded that possiblity before.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by GePap

Spoiler:

The use of SectumSempra got him into minor trouble, nothing compared to the boon it was using it.

As for what is easy, hiding from Voldemort, running away, or joining with him, those would be the easy choices. Just in fighting Voldermort Harry has chosen what is hard and right. To think he must die at the end is going beyond that unnecessarily.

As for the prophesy, as long as Any party of Voldermort's soul lives, he lives. That's why it makes little sense for Harry to be Hoxcrux

Spoiler:

SectumSempra could have gotten him into major trouble. If Snape hadn't been around, Draco could have died and Harry could have been a murder. He wasn't happy at what he'd done. But even then he tries to justify it because he wants to do the easy thing.

Yes, fighting Voldemort is what is hard and right. Dying at the end isn't unnecessary, but the ultimate sacrifice.

As for the prophecy, exactly... as long as Voldemort's soul lives, he lives! If the last part of the soul is within Harry, then he'd try to resurrect himself from inside Harry.

It may not happen, but I can see it. 'One cannot live while the other survives' seems strange. After all, like you said, Harry can hide, so Voldemort could survive and Harry live. Perhaps more will be learned of that line

Spoiler:

If you see a plot point coming all the way before, then NO, its not a "shocking surprise". Rowling alwasy gives clues to the reader about what might be up ahead, certainly if you start to read back, you see how she was building up.

As for the last book ending in a great shock, the greatest Shock would be Harry dying and Voldermort winning, would it not? THAT would be the greatest shock of all, not Harry sacraficing himself to win. And yet, I would assume you would rule out that ending. Why, if the ending has to be the biggest shock of all.

Again, none of what has happened has been shocking. It all fits within the greater storyline, which in itself is not a particualrly shocking plot line.

The "surprise" of Dumbledore's death is who does it more than it happens anyways. Even if people said it could not happen in this book, most people thoguht Dumbledore had to die at some point- that becomes a timming issue, not whether his death is a great surprise.

Spoiler:

Of course it's still a surprise! It's not supposed to be something that you know from the outset. It's something that you get inklings of, but you don't know for sure until it happens. People felt that it would be the end of Dumbledore, but how could they be sure until the end came? Simply because it was 'building up' doesn't make it less of a surprise. She was building up that Quirrell was actually possesed by Voldemort, but how many people got that? When you have people going through every little bit of text, you are going to end up with Rowling's surprises being figured out by some. Doesn't mean that she didn't write it as a surprise (and if someone read all the books straight through without all the hype and parsing of the books, it may indeed surprise them fully).

Yes, Voldemort winning would be a greater shock, but Harry dying would be a larger shock than any that came before it as well. I don't think Rowling would have the bad guys win, but perhaps she may kill off her protagonist. At the very least, it deflects any pressure for her to write adult Harry sequals.

Spoiler:

And it is still nonsense for Voldermot to make a Hoxcrux that seems to derive him 0 benefit simply to then pruposely destroy it. Lucious got into terrible trouble for letting one of Voldermot's Hoxcruces be destroyed. Voldermort obviously values and treasures them deeply if he goes to great lenghts to protect and hide them.

Why should he assume otherwise? No, its obvious you can;t feel the soul part in it, probably. But again, Dumbledore has had tiome to think this out and try to piece together when Voldermot whould make one. Given that Dumbledore knows the Harry-Voldermot connection so well, Occam's Razo would point to him already having excluded that possiblity before.

Spoiler:

No one ever said that Voldemort would make Harry a horcrux because he had oodles of time and what a trophy. The basis behind the theory is that Voldemort planned to make a 7th horcrux out of something of James and Lilly's (maybe Lilly's wedding ring) after killing them and Harry. After all, he makes horcruxes after important killings. And if Harry was in the prophecy, then it'd be a very important killing. However, the spell backfired, but by performing the murder, the soul was able to split in two and Voldemort sent it part of soul into the only thing he could think of at the time, Harry's body itself.

It may not happen, but it certainly is plausible, and I don't see how Dumbledore would be able to piece it together, even after looking at Harry so long. Unless Filch's secret thingy can detect souls trapped inside. Dumbledore is making guesswork here. He doesn't know when the 7 were made and is even surprised that Voldemort's cave would require a blood sacrifice before entry.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Spoiler:

SectumSempra could have gotten him into major trouble. If Snape hadn't been around, Draco could have died and Harry could have been a murder. He wasn't happy at what he'd done. But even then he tries to justify it because he wants to do the easy thing.

Yes, fighting Voldemort is what is hard and right. Dying at the end isn't unnecessary, but the ultimate sacrifice.

As for the prophecy, exactly... as long as Voldemort's soul lives, he lives! If the last part of the soul is within Harry, then he'd try to resurrect himself from inside Harry.

It may not happen, but I can see it. 'One cannot live while the other survives' seems strange. After all, like you said, Harry can hide, so Voldemort could survive and Harry live. Perhaps more will be learned of that line

Spoiler:

Man, all these tags are annoying.Anyways.

No, that prophecy is not that strange- Voldermort believes Harry is his demise, so he believes he has no choice but to kill Harry. Lets remember what Dumbledore says about Voldemort's actions making the prophecy true. It is in the act of caryring it out that it becomes reality-much like in Oedipus.

Spoiler:

Of course it's still a surprise! It's not supposed to be something that you know from the outset. It's something that you get inklings of, but you don't know for sure until it happens. People felt that it would be the end of Dumbledore, but how could they be sure until the end came? Simply because it was 'building up' doesn't make it less of a surprise. She was building up that Quirrell was actually possesed by Voldemort, but how many people got that? When you have people going through every little bit of text, you are going to end up with Rowling's surprises being figured out by some. Doesn't mean that she didn't write it as a surprise (and if someone read all the books straight through without all the hype and parsing of the books, it may indeed surprise them fully).

Yes, Voldemort winning would be a greater shock, but Harry dying would be a larger shock than any that came before it as well. I don't think Rowling would have the bad guys win, but perhaps she may kill off her protagonist. At the very least, it deflects any pressure for her to write adult Harry sequals.

Spoiler:

Now you revert from shock to surprise? If i suspect I will get a surprise party, I might be surprised about the particualrs, but not that I did get one. As for what people expect, that is an issue of lack of info (the asture reader will see it), not of whether the plot is filled with strange twists and turns. While Harry would efinitelly already act in suicidal ways to help his friends and defeat Voldermort that does not mean that it makes much sense given the plot as it has gone.

Spoiler:

No one ever said that Voldemort would make Harry a horcrux because he had oodles of time and what a trophy. The basis behind the theory is that Voldemort planned to make a 7th horcrux out of something of James and Lilly's (maybe Lilly's wedding ring) after killing them and Harry. After all, he makes horcruxes after important killings. And if Harry was in the prophecy, then it'd be a very important killing. However, the spell backfired, but by performing the murder, the soul was able to split in two and Voldemort sent it part of soul into the only thing he could think of at the time, Harry's body itself.

Spoiler:

How could Voldemort have implanted his soul into anything after having lost his body and been so horribly weakend after failing to kill Harry? Dumbledore already addresses this by stating that yes, Voldermot probably did plan to make a Hoxcrux after killing Harry (killing Lilly and James was hardly special in and of itself) but that instead he did it with Nagili afterwards.

Spoiler:

It may not happen, but it certainly is plausible, and I don't see how Dumbledore would be able to piece it together, even after looking at Harry so long. Unless Filch's secret thingy can detect souls trapped inside. Dumbledore is making guesswork here. He doesn't know when the 7 were made and is even surprised that Voldemort's cave would require a blood sacrifice before entry.

Spoiler:

If X number of readers could come up with the idea just after finishing the book, why would Rowling make it so it failed to occur to Dumbledore?

his surprise at Voldermot was in the crudness of the effort, like is all of a sudden all LoTM posted were long posts of explitives and invectives. After all, it would not take a genius mage like Dumbledore to open that up or even figure it out, probably why someone not of Dumbledore's caliber was able to get the Hoxcrux in the first place

[Spiffor]

Looking at this discussion, with all the spoiler boxes, is surreal

[GePap]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Looking at this discussion, with all the spoiler boxes, is surreal

Its annoying to write, that;s what it is.

[Nacht]

Why not start a new thread and put SPOILER in the title?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by GePap

Spoiler:

Man, all these tags are annoying.Anyways.

No, that prophecy is not that strange- Voldermort believes Harry is his demise, so he believes he has no choice but to kill Harry. Lets remember what Dumbledore says about Voldemort's actions making the prophecy true. It is in the act of caryring it out that it becomes reality-much like in Oedipus.

Spoiler:

But, you have to admit that both are living while both are surviving at the moment. True Voldemort thinks that Harry will come back and kill him, but both are living and surviving. Unless the difference in the words means anything

Spoiler:

Now you revert from shock to surprise? If i suspect I will get a surprise party, I might be surprised about the particualrs, but not that I did get one. As for what people expect, that is an issue of lack of info (the asture reader will see it), not of whether the plot is filled with strange twists and turns. While Harry would efinitelly already act in suicidal ways to help his friends and defeat Voldermort that does not mean that it makes much sense given the plot as it has gone.

Spoiler:

Shock and surprise are similar, most surprises do end up being shocking. Anyway, if you find out about a surprise party that doesn't mean that the party isn't a surprise party anymore. The people throwing it believe it is a surprise to you. I think Rowling intends them as surprise endings and her younger readers may not catch the symbolism of a wise teacher dying. I think Harry dying would fit in with the plot. Missing 7th year means he can't be an auror (IIRC), so what does he do after defeating Voldemort? The only alternative is that Hogwarts is canceled for a year and Harry goes back to complete his schooling with everyone else... of course that screams sequal and I'm not sure Rowling would want that

Spoiler:

How could Voldemort have implanted his soul into anything after having lost his body and been so horribly weakend after failing to kill Harry? Dumbledore already addresses this by stating that yes, Voldermot probably did plan to make a Hoxcrux after killing Harry (killing Lilly and James was hardly special in and of itself) but that instead he did it with Nagili afterwards.

Spoiler:

There is a split second when Voldemort realizes the curse didn't work on the boy and is backfiring. He'd may have tried to force his severed soul (from killing Lily) anywhere and find Harry in front of him. And from what it sounds like, Lily and James were top Aurors, who had helped foil Voldemort in the past

Spoiler:

If X number of readers could come up with the idea just after finishing the book, why would Rowling make it so it failed to occur to Dumbledore?

his surprise at Voldermot was in the crudness of the effort, like is all of a sudden all LoTM posted were long posts of explitives and invectives. After all, it would not take a genius mage like Dumbledore to open that up or even figure it out, probably why someone not of Dumbledore's caliber was able to get the Hoxcrux in the first place

Spoiler:

If X number of readers could have told Harry to use his mirror to speak to Sirius in OotP, why would Harry forget, when he'd been given it by Sirius and would have remembered it best. Because we are a fourth wall that can go back and see what leads up to things. It isn't like horcruxes really stand out, except when made to stand out, like the protection surrounding the locket.

[Kuciwalker]

Spoiler:

Oh please! The surprises were just to keep the readers coming back? It's part of Rowling's writings. She likes the shock at the end, not so readers say, wow, that was a surprise, maybe I'll read the next one. And yes, Dumbledore dying was a surprise even though some had predicted it. I fail to see how they weren't surprises. A prediction realized doesn't mean it fails to be a surprise. Remember earlier in thread you had people saying Dumbledore couldn't die in this one. Maybe next one, but not this one. Most people were sure of DD's death also because of the leaks.

It was obvious from the beginning part with the Unbreakable Oath that Dumbledore would die.

[Nacht]

Spoiler:

It was obvious from the beginning part with the Unbreakable Oath that Dumbledore would die.

Spoiler:

How so? It wasn't clear what Draco's task was.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Spoiler:

Indeed... me and my friends first though Draco's task was to kill Harry. However, even if Snape makes the Unbreakable Vow, that doesn't preclude Snape dying.