Do you REALLY believe in God?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Theben
I noticed that the more religious someone is, the more of a w@nker they usually are/were. I assume the extra religiousness is an attempt to make up for it.

Are you talking to me?

[Pekka]

To answer the topic, yes.

I have thoughts too, I think sometimes that maybe God does not exist, or what if God doesn't exist.. but at the end, I still end up believing. Sure.. but it doesn't interfere with my scientific approach to things, and no I don't believe in id.

And if there was no God, it didn't hinder my living anyway, because I do what I want regardless. Things I don't do anyway are part of what I think is good things to leave undone, regardless. So no, it's not like I'd have to regret not doign something because there was no God. I'm not missing out. It's you guys who are missing out.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Are you talking to me?

Only if you're listening.

It's an observation I've made over the years. I won't deny a possible bias in my outlook.

[Elok]

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Uh, I think you don't quite get the point. Rigid literalism, while an unfortunate flaw in certain modern branches of Christianity, was in fact the number one most likely way to PO Jesus, if you look in the Gospels. And I ain't Catholic, so I don't regard sin from a legalistic perspective at all either. It's not like God has sentencing guidelines or something ("lust, seven hundredth offense, sixty years in hell..."). It's more a matter of what you've done with your life on balance.

[Capt Dizle]

Yes, I believe in God. I see so much wonder in the world and all balanced on the finest blade to think it all came about by chance.

Religion is a different animal, much of that is the product of men seeking dominion over others by false teachings, abusing our natural instinct to search for God.

One of the bulwarks of faith for me is observing the mockery of God and personal attacks on those who claim religious beliefs that are so prevalant. Such protest betrays, I think, that many who claim otherwise have belief in God, denied, and perhaps confirmed by the denial. But faith is in short supply.

[Agathon]

Belief in God is no more reasonable than belief in fairies.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Agathon
Belief in God is no more reasonable than belief in fairies.

Gray is a more beautiful color than blue.

[aneeshm]

Considering that both are non-corporeal beings , with no provable evidence ( I know , evidence and provable together are redundant ) for their existence , Occam's razor cuts both God and fairies out of the picture .

[Ben Kenobi]

These and other beliefs are so strong in fact, that one will never in his life voluntarily jump from a building, although it would save considerable time and possibly provide entertainment too.

Not so, there are people who do voluntarily jump from a building, as we saw in the attack on the World Trade Centre. Rather than staying up on the top of the building and dying, they chose to jump.

On the other hand, breaking religious rules is supposed to also hurt you very badly, in fact, if you sin you are supposed to endure unimaginable pain and suffering forever.

If one does not repent from sin, then this is so, and only after our death in Hell. During life, we will suffer from sin, but never to the point where we cannot continue to sin should we want to do so.

Now, this stuff is so commonplace - take for example laziness or consumerism - that even people who claim they honestly believe in God do them.

Yes, this is why Apostle Paul says in Romans, that all have sinned and fallen short of the law. Everyone. The standard of Christ is impossible for even righteous believers to meet, because it is God's standard and not men's standard.

Therefore, it is impossible for our actions to give credit to God, since we all fall short of the standard set by God. It is only through the grace of God, can we be saved.

I myself am a Catholic. But I must say that in my life I haven't met a person whose behavior is consistent with his professed religion, except perhaps priests.

Then you need to look at these priests more carefully. Everyone sins.

Importantly, note that I am not talking about full compliance with religious code, I am talking about sincerity of professed belief. As I have explained, it can be easily observed that people don't really believe in religious teaching. At all.

People are weak. One can sincerely hold a belief, and profess a faith, and still sin. Those who are sincere understand this, and repent of their sins.

For example, not a single person will post in this thread and say they sincerely believe - because consuming internet forums is hardly a necessity - and doing so would burn your hand.

I believe, and I accept your challenge. It would be sinful for me to deny Christ, even as I acknowledge my own sins in answering your questions.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Theben


Only if you're listening.

It's an observation I've made over the years. I won't deny a possible bias in my outlook.

So you're really talking to yourself.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's more a matter of what you've done with your life on balance.

Are you certain of that? Is it only necessary to have the good outweigh the bad actions, or is necessary to match Christ? One cannot be saved other than through the grace of God, for we do not measure up to the standard set by Christ. The works that we do cannot save us, for the good that we do cannot counterbalance the evil.

[Ben Kenobi]

Given that logic...what created that God?

Creation implies that there was a time before God existed. If God existed before there was such a thing as time, then God cannot have been created. It is also for this reason, that Christ, is co-eternal with God the Father, even though he is begotten by the father before all worlds.

[Jon Miller]

yeah

JM

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Creation implies that there was a time before God existed.

It does? Whoa, never heard that before...

If God existed before there was such a thing as time, then God cannot have been created.

This delves into "what is time." If the universe existed pre-time, than it cannot have been created either.

The notion that the universe had to have a "creator" because of the "first cause" argument is very flawed, because it assumes that A) there indeed existed a point where nothing existed in the universe (which we don't know), and B) that such a "first cause" is required to be a supernatural deity.

It is also for this reason, that Christ, is co-eternal with God the Father, even though he is begotten by the father before all worlds.

Blah blah, that wasn't remotely a part of the issue. Could you refrain from irrelevant preaching for just a little bit?

[Ben Kenobi]

This delves into "what is time." If the universe existed pre-time, than it cannot have been created either.

Very true. Yet science tells us that the universe is not eternal, and must have been created.

The notion that the universe had to have a "creator" because of the "first cause" argument is very flawed, because it assumes that A) there indeed existed a point where nothing existed in the universe (which we don't know),

A is true, by what we do know about science. One of the fundamental principles of Cosmology is that the universe is both finite and created. What science does not know is how the universe came to be created.

and B) that such a "first cause" is required to be a supernatural deity.

Granted, but to say that if God created the universe than something must have created God, is not necessarily so. What Christians believe in God is logical and consistent.

Blah blah, that wasn't remotely a part of the issue. Could you refrain from irrelevant preaching for just a little bit?

There are two questions here. What is time, and what is God. This deals with the second one, what Christians believe about God.