Vote who you think is/was THE greatest American.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No, it's because I have some brains in my head. Lord knows how you've been so brainwashed by the left, but RFK was a loser who, like his brother, is only thought of highly because he was shot.

Not really.

I will readily admit that he was short on accomplishments, but was well on his way to greatness.

However, in your ignorance, you're totally overlooking the effects he had on organized crime, civil rights, poor people, and not to mention, the Vietnam war. He gave all those areas a voice. He knocked Lyndon Johnson out of office.

It has nothing to do with "left brainwashing." I'd say you're more brainwashed by the right by the whole, "he was shot so nothing he did really matters crap," that comes from the right. Duh.

BRING IT

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui




*gasp*



I'd rather pick Carter!

How can you claim with a straight face, that Robby did not make any positive effort in regards to civil rights and understanding Vietnam War?

[Imran Siddiqui]

However, in your ignorance, you're totally overlooking the effects he had on organized crime, civil rights, poor people, and not to mention, the Vietnam war. He gave all those areas a voice. He knocked Lyndon Johnson out of office.

He also authorized wiretapping on MLK, Jr. and was a nasty SOB, who was probably one of Hoover's favorite AG's.

The only reason he is remembered is because his name is "Kennedy" and he was a part of Camelot. You act if he was the only one calling for civil rights and halting escalation of Vietnam.

[Ted Striker]

Yes, but that was in the earlier years. Bobby later grew up, his decision to criticize the Vietnam war was directly against his brother's. He later became one of King's greatest allys. He also turned against Joseph McCarthy, saying his with hunts against Communists went to far. This is a man who learned from his mistakes and corrected them.

[Ted Striker]

Kennedy was loved by blacks, in a way nobody else could reach out to them. If you really want to know the relationship between him and King:

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Yes, but that was in the earlier years. Bobby later grew up, his decision to criticize the Vietnam war was directly against his brother's. He later became one of King's greatest allys. He also turned against Joseph McCarthy, saying his with hunts against Communists went to far. This is a man who learned from his mistakes and corrected them.

And? The guy was an AG (picked by his brother) and a Senator from New York. What exactly did he do except deal with the mob? Besides, you can't just erase what you did in the past.

He was blessed with a Kennedy name, which gave him a bigger mouthpiece than any other person on a similar career path. It's why Hillary gets so much press today, because of the Clinton name, not because she did anything.

[Ted Striker]

Man, you sound like the Rush Limbaugh show, making alot of generalizations about something you're unsure about, or have only cursory knowledge. The fact about the mob is common knowledge. The amount of hardline prosecutions against the mob is well known.

You're just underestimating him because of his name. Bobby was not taken seriously when he first ran for office because of the exact thing you mentioned. He was shy, and timid, had no voice, but over the course of a few months, found his voice and stood on his own two feet. THe fact that his message was so much different from his brother's shows that. Even at times going against his brother's ideas.

Sorry Siddiqui, I first thought the same as you did, but when I investigated further, and saw the real story, I realized what this man was all about.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The fact about the mob is common knowledge. The amount of hardline prosecutions against the mob is well known.

What exactly did he do except deal with the mob?

---

You're just underestimating him because of his name.

No, people overestimate him because of the name. They do the same with his brother, who is the most overrated President in history. They think RFK actually DID something about race relations and Vietnam. He didn't do **** except talk about it, which many people in the late 60s were doing, even big time Congressmen.

I first thought the same as you did, but when I investigated further, and saw the real story, I realized what this man was all about.

And I originally though RFK was a man of substance, but then I investigated further and found he didn't do ****.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Listen, I'm no fan of LBJ, but one of the big tragedies of American history learning is how much credit the Kennedy brothers get for Civil Rights, while LBJ gets nada, when he was the one who pushed through and signed the Civil Rights Acts of 1964.

The reason LBJ stepped down wasn't because RFK, but it was something which was an inevitability to save the party. LBJ may have been unpopular for Vietnam, but the real reason that he'd never win was the few seconds he took to sign the Civil Rights Act. He was a Texas Democrat, his base of support came from the South, which is why JFK took him as his Veep. As soon as he passed Civil Rights for blacks, that support was gone. Without his base, he'd be dead, against Nixon or whoever else. He realized it and didn't want to see what happened to the Republicans in 1964 happen to the Dems in 1968.

I though LBJ messed up with Vietnam, threw good money after bad in his War on Poverty, and wasn't all that great an executive, but for damn sure he deserves praise for being the impetus behind finally granting substantive Civil Rights to blacks, while sacrificing his own political career (he had to know that there was no way he could survive).

And yet the Kennedy boys get all the praise.

[MrFun]

Um, my appreciation of the Kennedys along with acknowledgement of their shortcomings, does not mean that I ignore LBJ's contributions and shortcomings as well.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Most people do.. because the Kennedy's get far, far, far too much credit from people. Such as people saying JFK would have passed Civil Rights if he lived (yeah right, why didn't he do it before then), or RFK being the biggest civil rights guy of the time... all BS. LBJ got it done and the Kennedys were just full of hot air.

[BlackCat]

Edit : wrong thread

[Odin]

LBJ is tainted by Vietnam, If it wasn't for Vietnam I bet many people would of considered him a great president because of the Civil rights Act and attempts at reform with the Great Society. I Agree that Kennedy is over-idolized. It's like with Reagan, Kennedy is liked because he was a great speaker, and so seemed greater than he really was. I think this country would be a better place today if most of LBJ's reforms hadn't been erased by Reagan.

[Mercator]

I'd expect Dubya to win this, or end second after George Washington or something... So the best way to mock this would be to vote Clinton (all 3 votes), obviously!

Having said that, I voted for Elvis, Edison and MLK.

[BlackCat]

Einstein
Whashington
Bob Hope

Since this vote tries to take non us citizens into account, I think it's just fair to vote on those that aren't US citizens by birth.