Homeless Folks

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Oerdin

http://www.outofthedoorways.org/news/santacruz.html

Article on Camp Home Sweet Home and Guitar Dave before he died. It's to bad these people wasted so much energy trying to create a legal right to let homeless drug addicts stay homeless when they could have helped treat people with drug addictions to help them get off the street. I voluntired to help serve meals at the homeless shelter 4-5 times over the years and everything I saw confirmed that these people had serious problems and needed tough love to over come them.

My problem is that I value a free society and so far that has meant people have the right to destroy their own lives. Even with "tough love" I don't know how you get the chronic addicts out of the habit and the street

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


I think his scenario is people who HAVE a job but are without shelter for a time.

Some of them have jobs, some don't. I'm just glad I've never been homeless. It would scare the **** out of me, because there is always the danger of becoming permanently homeless. In fact, I believe that's what usually happens. I don't think Oerdin knows the first thing about being homeless except for seeing insane drunks playing guitars on the corner. All homeless people aren't the same.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious

Are you just pulling this out of your ass?

Stop shouting and learn to use google.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5702.html

Facts about Short Term vs Long Term homelessness. Also most people who do transition off of the streets live for a period at a shelter or halfway house. That's where they stay in order to save up the money they need to rent a room or get an apartment.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious

All homeless people aren't the same.

Obviously not. thats why he has talked differently about differnet categories of homeless. And now I see he is providing documentary support for what he was saying.

Please please whatever you do . .. please do not retreat to some tired mantra of " you are saying all homeless are x or y" because Oerdin NEVER said that nor did I. In fact our posts make it quite clear that we see a number of different types of homeless within that broad group and the solutions for one group may be radically different than another group.

For many short term homeless, a short leg up and a roof is all they need. They then continue in or rejoin the workforce and never need help again.

Many others though . . . you could hand them a free apartment for life and they would still live miserably ( probably would rent the apartment out to someone else for drug money and then return to the street

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Stop shouting and learn to use google.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5702.html

Facts about Short Term vs Long Term homelessness.

The article is about poverty, not homelessness.

Don't bother posting another one, unless you are going to read it, and get some facts out of it for examination.

[Ben Kenobi]

Are you just pulling this out of your ass? What happens when the registration runs out on their car and they get it taken away? How do they recieve phone calls from employers? What address do they put on the application? How do they find a place to rent with a gap in their rental history?

Or to work, with a gap in their work history. I find it interesting, that you point out one of the things that I struggle with from my employers.

I hate telephones, and I wish I never had to deal with them, but employers are used to talking to people over the phone, that it makes it difficult to convince them otherwise.

I'm not convinced that all of the homeless want to stay that way, but I agree with many of the things Oerdin says. The east side of Vancouver is a dump, while the west side is clean, yet it's the east side that other do-gooders agitate for more rights for homeless folks. It's the east side that gets so much money pumped into it, yet nothing changes.

I've been close several times in the last year, but thankfully never gotten quite so dire as to be out on the street.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by GePap
1. A significant number of homeless men are veterans.

2. In the past few years the population of homeless women and children has grown dramatically. IN NYC today close to 20% of homeless IIC are children.

IN dealing with homeless, chelters are a poor idea-one needs more permanent solutions, like relocation to cheaper housing, coupled with treatment for those with mental and medical issues, as well as job counceling.

Habitat for Humanities seems to be a good program.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious


The article is about poverty, not homelessness.

Don't bother posting another one, unless you are going to read it, and get some facts out of it for examination.

Learn to read. The article is about homelessness & poverty plus it mentioned guitar dave and camp home sweet home in IV where homeless people lived in my old neighborhood. I'd be willing to bet that even the few times I;ve volinteered for shelters and the few years I lived in a neighborhood with a homeless shelter gave me far more interactions with homeless people then you've had in your entire life. I could be wrong but even so I've certainly come up with more realistic solution to homelessness in this thread then you have.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Good it is supposed to shock people into finally getting treatment for their problems. San Francisco spent 40 years giving cash payments to homeless people and trying to talk them into going into treatment but found that approach didn't work. People used the money to buy more drugs and often became "long term homeless" or people who choose to remain on the streets instead of seeking treatment. The new approach originally used in LA and San Diego but now adopted in San Francisco as well is to make life extremely difficult for people on the street thus making continuing to be homeless impossible. Several homeless shelters are offered though people must take part in reabilitation programs if they want to stay. Its a tough love enviroment instead of the old enable system which means if they go back on drugs they get kicked out of the system for a period of time.

The goal is to force people to change and to provide them with the tools to do so. People who don't want to change normally will find the police harassment to much and will move some where else or will finally face their demons and enter treatment. One thing is for sure and that is simply giving cash and allowing drug addicts to live on the street is no longer allowed and that is a very positive thing.

For the record, I like this idea, Oerdin.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I've been close several times in the last year, but thankfully never gotten quite so dire as to be out on the street.

I'm bumming right now since I just got divorced and I'm basically paying my exwifes rent still. If someone didn't help me I'd be homeless. I imagine some people don't have anyone to help out when they need it.

[pchang]

Originally posted by Kidicious


And if you weren't addicted? Would you like some pig to come and tell you to get off the street?

And if I weren't addicted, I would gladly get off the street if the "pig" also offered to direct me to a shelter that would take me.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by pchang
And if I weren't addicted, I would gladly get off the street if the "pig" also offered to direct me to a shelter that would take me.

1) You can't stay in the shelter during the day.

2) You can't stay in the shelter every night.

I lived in Ventura which is much like San Diego, where there are a lot of conservatives *****ing about homeless people. They like to make out like they are a bunch of worthless people, but a lot of them work. I've worked with them, because I had to do day labor. The ****ed up thing is that in those neighborhoods the rents are so high because the city does everything they can to keep the supply of cheap housing low, because they don't want those kind of people around. But they still need them around to fill low wage jobs. So the police harass them so that they won't stay in town long. It's all about people who are bigots and full of ****.

[MrFun]

In other words, a contemporary version of sunset towns?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Good it is supposed to shock people into finally getting treatment for their problems. San Francisco spent 40 years giving cash payments to homeless people and trying to talk them into going into treatment but found that approach didn't work. People used the money to buy more drugs and often became "long term homeless" or people who choose to remain on the streets instead of seeking treatment. The new approach originally used in LA and San Diego but now adopted in San Francisco as well is to make life extremely difficult for people on the street thus making continuing to be homeless impossible. Several homeless shelters are offered though people must take part in reabilitation programs if they want to stay. Its a tough love enviroment instead of the old enable system which means if they go back on drugs they get kicked out of the system for a period of time.

The goal is to force people to change and to provide them with the tools to do so. People who don't want to change normally will find the police harassment to much and will move some where else or will finally face their demons and enter treatment. One thing is for sure and that is simply giving cash and allowing drug addicts to live on the street is no longer allowed and that is a very positive thing.

This is all assuming that every homeless person is a drug addict, which is simply not true...


And why should the poorer addicts be given a harder time, anyways?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious


1) You can't stay in the shelter during the day.

2) You can't stay in the shelter every night.

I lived in Ventura which is much like San Diego, where there are a lot of conservatives *****ing about homeless people. They like to make out like they are a bunch of worthless people, but a lot of them work. I've worked with them, because I had to do day labor. The ****ed up thing is that in those neighborhoods the rents are so high because the city does everything they can to keep the supply of cheap housing low, because they don't want those kind of people around. But they still need them around to fill low wage jobs. So the police harass them so that they won't stay in town long. It's all about people who are bigots and full of ****.

At least at the Catholic Charities shelter here in Diego (and there are two others but the Catholic one is the only one open year round) you can stay during the day but only if you are taking part in one of their rehabilitation programs. It's really a good system.

BTW Ventura's housing prices are very moderate compared to Santa Barbara's prices and the area is mainly concerned with stopping urban sprawl so they don't become another LA. That does limit development which does drive up prices but the reason for it is leftist "save the enviroment; plant a tree" type thinking not evil conservatives who want to keep the poor poor.

Just my $0.02 from living in the area for 4 years.