Jesus wore rags, Religous leaders wear silk.

[lord of the mark]

on religious views of wealth


A rich man goes up to a rabbi, and says "I pledge to eat only bread and water" The rabbi responds "no, this is forbidden - you must east good meat and drink fine wine, as all the other rich do" After the man departs, the rabbis students ask him why he insisted on this, as there is no law in the Torah requiring the rich to eat well. The rabbi responded "if he eats meat, he will think the poor deserve bread, and will give charity. If he eats only bread, he will think the poor can live on air"

Moral of the story - wealth is acceptable, as long as its INSTRUMENTAL - the key is not ascetic living per se, or rich living per se, but what is actually done for the poor. Or, in modern, terms, social justice.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Anyone who asks, receives.

Odd. I didn't get a Vatican Bank account or cheque book or bank card at either my baptism, first holy communion or confirmation.



' Gelli's arrest touches on scandals and secret deals going back to the Second World War; many of these events involve the Vatican, especially the role played by the Holy See in operating a "rat line" expatriation movement for Nazis and other war criminals, and a financial deal linking the papacy with illegal, dirty money flowing through its bank, the IOR or Institute for Religious Works.

Court documents made public in July of this year trace the flow of money from the Corleone Mafia family to investments in the Vatican bank. In connection with the "spectacular failure" of Banco Ambrosiano, Britain's Daily Telegraph observed "The Holy See resisted all attempts by magistrates investigating the crash to force the now-retired Marcinkus to submit to Italian justice over the crash." Another twist involves a new probe by Italian authorities into Calvi's murder, and a report that a "Vatican finance figure" (Telegraph) was present at the meeting where the plan to murder Calvi was discussed.

Why does the Vatican's involvement in the Calvi affair keep cropping up? The criminal organizations behind the scandal had links to the IOR and the Vatican hierarchy. In late August, it was announced that Cardinal Michele Giordano, Archbishop of Naples was under investigation for usury, extortion and membership in a criminal group. Giordano was served with a warrant at his "palace" by prosecutors and members of Italy's Finance Guards unit; he threatened a diplomatic incident and claimed that his residence, being an office of the papacy, enjoyed diplomatic immunity and extraterritorial status. Investigators still obtained paper documents and computer disks.

The Cardinal's brother, Mario Giordano, had been arrested a week earlier in connection with a probe of Banco di Napoli. Two other bank officials including a former manager have been charged with extortion and running an illegal usury operation with interest as high as 400%.

"Investigators have traced back to the cardinal and his administration cheques totaling more than 250,000 pounds cashed by his brother..." notes the Telegraph. '

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/vatican2.htm

What would the Apostle Peter say ?

Acts, Chapter III:

6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee."



" Introduction to the Vatican Bank Claims

Alperin v. Vatican Bank was originally filed in Federal Court in San Francisco in November 1999. The plaintiffs are concentration camp survivors of Serb, Jewish, and Ukrainian background and their relatives as well as organizations representing over 300,000 Holocaust victims.

The plaintiffs seek an accounting and restitution of the Nazi Croatian Treasury that according to the US State Department was illicitly transferred to the Vatican bank and other banks after the end of the war.

Name defendants currently include the Vatican Bank, Franciscan Order, and the Croatian Liberation Movement. These defendants combined to conceal assets looted by the Croatian Nazis from concentration camp victims, Serbs, Jews, Roma and others between 1941-1945.

Levy v. CIA is a lawsuit filed under the Freedom of Information Act seeking release of US Intelligence agency files regarding the notorius Vatican spymaster, Fr. Krunoslav Draganovic. New records on Draganovic were released as a result of that lawsuit in 2001. "

http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/home.html

What would the New Testament say ?

Romans 2:21

" Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? "


" MARC RICH---SWINDLING THE POPE'S SOYBEAN COMPANY

3/14/01 by Sherman H. Skolnick

The Pope and his advisors had good reason to believe Chicago was the place to conduct business. The Windy City has the largest number of Catholic Church parishes of anywhere in America.

Under Church provisions and Illinois law, the Catholic Archbishop of Chicago is a Corporation Sole. "

http://www.skolnicksreport.com/soybean.html

What would Jesus say ?

" And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise."

John 2:13-16.


Let's be ecumenical:

" So, honey, you can be healthy tonight and you can be, you have your eyesight and you're able to walk, but you ain't got no money in your pocketbook, I'm telling you this anointing is ready to put some money in your pocketbook because He's ready to remove the burden of lack.”

(TBN July 20, 1999)


Creflo makes this even clearer by emphatically stating:

“What is the gospel to the poor? It is prosperity!”

(Creflo Dollar, TBN, Praise-A-Thon April 1, 2001)

So the gospel will make you healthy and rich. What happened to forgiveness of sin? Is this the gospel Jesus preached? Did he ever say follow me to be healthy and wealthy? What person became wealthy following Jesus, what example do we have? Did the Apostles? Making promises like this does violence to the sacred gospel of Christ. So if a person does not have these to elements take place are they saved according to Creflo's prosperity now gospel? "

http://www.letusreason.org/Wf46.htm

What would Jesus say ?

Luke: 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor.

and

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

and:

James 5: 1-6

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you.

Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten.

Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire.

You have laid up treasure for the last days.

Behold, the wages of the labourers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.

You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you.

Mmm. So is he saying invest in soybean futures, Government bonds and blue chip companies ?

I'm confused.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I only have silk boxers.

That makes you a corrupt elitist.





By the way -- great post, Molly.

[Ben Kenobi]

Odd. I didn't get a Vatican Bank account or cheque book or bank card at either my baptism, first holy communion or confirmation.

You missed my point. My point was that anyone who asks a question, if I see the question, I will try to answer. Hence, anyone who asks, recieves.