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  • France to vote non on EU constitution

    And the Dutch are to follow with a no vote.

    This is a good move. No need to accept a bad constitution.

    One thing that's funny from an outsider's point of view is that the yes camp is saying all sorts of horrific things will happen if the treaty is rejected. An apocalapse. I bet these kind of scary pronouncements only hurt the yes cause. They sound desperate.

    The no camp is saying some stupid stuff too. They make it sound as if France will become the 51st US state, if the yes vote wins.

    Polls show a no lead of 54% - 46%.

    From the Guardian...

    French non a disaster for world says EU chief

    Jon Henley in Paris and Patrick Wintour
    Thursday May 26, 2005
    The Guardian

    A no vote in France's referendum on the European constitution on Sunday would be a catastrophe for the entire world, EU president Jean-Claude Juncker warned yesterday.

    Mr Juncker, the prime minister of Luxembourg, said a French no could have a major impact on foreign investment in the union, and repeated that there was no question of the treaty being renegotiated if France's voters - as 10 polls in a row have predicted - decide to blow a Gallic raspberry to both their centre-right government and the treaty.

    "If there is a 'no' on Sunday in France, that would be a catastrophe for France, for [French president Jacques] Chirac and for the entire world," Mr Juncker, who holds the EU's rotating presidency until July 1, said in an interview with Belgian daily Le Soir.

    "Imagine if you are head of a business in Texas or unionist in Bolivia or head of a business in Shanghai and see Europe like that ... saying 'no'," he added. "International observers will not know where Europe is going."

    Doomsayers are growing in number ahead of Sunday's vote. Lord Kinnock, the former European commissioner, yesterday became the most senior Labour figure to foresee the treaty unravelling.

    "I am pretty certain we are not going to have a referendum now because the French are going to do what they will do on Sunday and that is kill the treaty stone dead," he told a Labour meeting in London.

    "And if you have not got a treaty, there is no point having a referendum."

    He said the reversal would keep the Europe issue prominent in British politics. "The fact will remain that across parties, but especially in Labour, we will have to engage in demystifying the EU by demonstrating how little it costs and what it does."

    The constitution, aimed at making the now 25-nation EU more efficient and more democratic, must be ratified by every member state to come into force. The latest poll puts the no vote in France on 54%, and in the Netherlands - which votes three days later - on 57%.

    The beleaguered French prime minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, insisted yesterday that the referendum's outcome was still in the balance, and called on voters not to use the vote to punish his government for continuing high unemployment and unpopular economic and social reforms.

    A separate poll showed public confidence in the prime minister had fallen to a record low, with just 28% of voters saying they trusted him to tackle the key challenges facing France. Mr Chirac's personal approval rating was stable at 44%. The government's unpopularity is one of the key obstacles facing the yes camp in the last days of its campaign: many observers believe endorsements of the treaty by Mr Raffarin are now counter-productive.

    But the prime minister insisted yesterday that "nothing is settled". He said France must "open its heart to Europe", and urged voters not to take aim at the wrong target.

    Dutch politicians have suggested a second referendum may be held if the Netherlands rejects the constitution, but Mr Raffarin has ruled out a second vote in France.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

  • #2
    Our PM wrote a letter to the french newspapers saying they should vote yes.
    So it's ok

    Comment


    • #3
      I wonder what goes through these folks' heads when they think such stuff will help their cause...
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

      Comment


      • #4
        Europeans hate each other too much to get it together.
        Long time member @ Apolyton
        Civilization player since the dawn of time

        Comment


        • #5
          I hate you Oregonians!
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

          Comment


          • #6
            YES! Way to go French at least the left in there has done something right.

            What a pitiful scenario it is when the leaders of France campagn for YES YES vote YES. They should STFU and let the people vote. Adn they did... and this is the result. It's pretty much done with, in here we wouldn't get it through either, but we don't get to vote because our *****es are welfare state nanny whores who think the state should decide what's good for the common people.

            So, the constitution is definitely NOT popular. Only communist fascist ****s would want to drive this one through now, since it's the constitution, and it's not popular, that's a hint to people all over the world, stay out of our faces or die trying enforcing that because we are killers with sense of justice.
            In da butt.
            "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
            THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
            "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

            Comment


            • #7
              The campaign isn't as high-level as I'd wish, considering that the issue is very complex, and that TV doesn't carry complex messages well.

              The campaign is mostly based on scaremongering, but there are some good things about it:

              1. We talking about a constitution, and most parties involved in the campaign (political parties and grassroots organizations) do speak about the text. Especially on the Non side, which can speak about many many negative aspects of the constitution.

              2. We're talking about Europe. It's the first time since the Maastricht treaty that the European debate is passionate in France. IMO, the European debate is the most important political issue in France (70% of our laws are decided or inspired by European institutions), and it's about damn time that the debate comes to the hands of the people.

              I wouldn't be too triumphant though. The Oui can still win. We have many undecided voters, and I expect them to swing in the direction of the political establishment when push comes to shove.
              Besides, If the non has only slightly more votes than the oui, I wouldn't put it past our glorious politicians to fraud on that one.
              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by paiktis22
                Our PM wrote a letter to the french newspapers saying they should vote yes.
                So it's ok
                I've heard the French possible non has triggered an actual debate in Greece (with a major demo saying "the French non is our non"). Is the debate any important in Greece, or is it solely in the hands of politicians?
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pekka
                  Only communist fascist ****s would want to drive this one through now
                  Funny, I'm a communist and I reject this constitution, just like my whole party (incidentally, the fascists reject the constitution as well)
                  "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                  "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                  "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ask anyone here including DanS to tell you what the eurocon is all about

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dutch politicians have suggested a second referendum may be held if the Netherlands rejects the constitution, but Mr Raffarin has ruled out a second vote in France.
                      the first line should tell you just what the EU is all about. if the people vote no, they'll simply have another vote until they make the 'right' decision

                      the only bad thing about this is that we won't get a chance to vote on this and reject it once and for all.
                      "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                      "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Spiff, so? I'm christian and I don't want to prosecute gays?
                        In da butt.
                        "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                        THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                        "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: France to vote non on EU constitution

                          Originally posted by DanS
                          The no camp is saying some stupid stuff too. They make it sound as if France will become the 51st US state, if the yes vote wins.
                          It's not exactly the kind of scaremongering employed by the left. More accurately, that would be:

                          1. The constitution enshrine thatcherite/reaganite policies. Saying that we go in the direction of the American society is sure to score quite some opposition here.
                          2. The constitution forces the countries to rearm, and the European common defense is strictly under the management of NATO. Therefore, the constitution enshrines the American influence over the geopolitics of European countries. Again, it's bound to displease people, whether they're pacisfists or anti-American. That's why it's played upon.
                          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Re: France to vote non on EU constitution

                            Originally posted by Spiffor

                            It's not exactly the kind of scaremongering employed by the left. More accurately, that would be:

                            1. The constitution enshrine thatcherite/reaganite policies. Saying that we go in the direction of the American society is sure to score quite some opposition here.
                            2. The constitution forces the countries to rearm, and the European common defense is strictly under the management of NATO. Therefore, the constitution enshrines the American influence over the geopolitics of European countries. Again, it's bound to displease people, whether they're pacisfists or anti-American. That's why it's played upon.
                            I understand all of this, but wouldn't you agree that this is all rubbish? It has no basis in fact, so hence my .

                            There's so much to dislike about the actual treaty that they don't need to make crap up.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pekka
                              Spiff, so? I'm christian and I don't want to prosecute gays?
                              I was just calling bull**** on you

                              The most ardent supporters of the constitution are the centre-politicians of the establishment. If you want to call them names, you may call them "wimps", "spineless", or "****ing elitists", but neither commie nor fascists are appropriate.
                              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                              Comment

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