France to vote non on EU constitution

[Lancer]

"again you;re very simplistic in your approach "

Thanks, you know I'm right if this is the best you can do.

[Bereta_Eder]

i answered in previous post

[joncha]

Pekka, why do you hate freedom? You communist.

[Pekka]

common identity doesn't exist.

It's called the leftist utopia and illusion, shared by leftists around the Europe. Just because them guys like to tangle their buns together doesn't make it reality or even wise.

[Pekka]

joncha, I don't hate freedom I am PRO-individual-choice.

[joncha]

You're such a commie.

[Bereta_Eder]

btw dont listen to pekka on this.

[Pekka]

I don't care if you whip your mouth like that.Leftist always base their arugments on the same tactics. Run your mouth and never prove anything. And that's what you are. Little ants.

[Lancer]

"The question is who we don't mind, or only hate them little enough to still be able to cooperate realistically."

That's right Pekka.




However self interest and greed added to ...hate is a strond word... distaste and dislike with a healthy measure of distrust... will keep the euros apart for a very long time.

[Bereta_Eder]

_
don't care if you whip your mouth like that.Leftist always base their arugments on the same tactics. Run your mouth and never prove anything. And that's what you are. Little ants




lance be sure you dont believe simply what you want to believe!

[Spiffor]

Re: Re: Re: Re: France to vote non on EU constitution

Originally posted by Spiffor
As for rearmement and NATO: it is part of the constitution.

Article I-41 Specific provisions relating to the common security and defence policy

1. The common security and defence policy shall be an integral part of the common foreign and security policy. It shall provide the Union with an operational capacity drawing on civil and military assets. The Union may use them on missions outside the Union for peace-keeping, conflict prevention and strengthening international security in accordance with the principles of the United Nations Charter. The performance of these tasks shall be undertaken using capabilities provided by the Member States.

2. The common security and defence policy shall include the progressive framing of a common Union defence policy. This will lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting unanimously, so decides. It shall in that case recommend to the Member States the adoption of such a decision in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements.

The policy of the Union in accordance with this Article shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States, it shall respect the obligations of certain Member States, which see their common defence realised in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, under the North Atlantic Treaty, and be compatible with the common security and defence policy established within that framework.

3. Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives defined by the Council. Those Member States which together establish multinational forces may also make them available to the common security and defence policy.

Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities. An Agency in the field of defence capabilities development, research, acquisition and armaments (European Defence Agency) shall be established to identify operational requirements, to promote measures to satisfy those requirements, to contribute to identifying and, where appropriate, implementing any measure needed to strengthen the industrial and technological base of the defence sector, to participate in defining a European capabilities and armaments policy, and to assist the Council in evaluating the improvement of military capabilities.

4. European decisions relating to the common security and defence policy, including those initiating a mission as referred to in this Article, shall be adopted by the Council acting unanimously on a proposal from the Union Minister for Foreign Affairs or an initiative from a Member State. The Union Minister for Foreign Affairs may propose the use of both national resources and Union instruments, together with the Commission where appropriate.

5. The Council may entrust the execution of a task, within the Union framework, to a group of Member States in order to protect the Union's values and serve its interests. The execution of such a task shall be governed by Article III-310.

6. Those Member States whose military capabilities fulfil higher criteria and which have made more binding commitments to one another in this area with a view to the most demanding missions shall establish permanent structured cooperation within the Union framework. Such cooperation shall be governed by Article III-312. It shall not affect the provisions of Article III-309.

7. If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.

Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation.

8. The European Parliament shall be regularly consulted on the main aspects and basic choices of the common security and defence policy. It shall be kept informed of how it evolves.

[Pekka]

paiktis, well you tell me what the **** is european common identity? You are so full of **** I'm not even laughing.

There is no ****ing european identity or even unity.

To say that is like listening to the Iraqi prime minister during his 'there are no american troops in baghdad' while the tanks are rolling in the backround.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Pekka
paiktis, well you tell me what the **** is european common identity? You are so full of **** I'm not even laughing.

There is no ****ing european identity or even unity.

To say that is like listening to the Iraqi prime minister during his 'there are no american troops in baghdad' while the tanks are rolling in the backround.

it has been gradually developed, slowly but surely over some decades now.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by paiktis22
In most of the other original 15 countries though more developed.

It's still very far from being overwhelming though.

90% of the Europeans feel a closer bond to their national identity than to Europe. Among them, a half doesn't feel European at all (source: 2000)

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Spiffor

It's still very far from being overwhelming though.

90% of the Europeans feel a closer bond to their national identity than to Europe. Among them, a half doesn't feel European at all (source: 2000)

sure.

my main point is that it has been generated some time in the past a feeling that didnt exist before, or that it existed but on a different basis.