What have we learned from Iraq?

[Lancer]

FROM page 1...

What have we learned from Iraq?


The US cannot depend upon France, (who showed no gratitude for the US WW1 and WW2 efforts) Germany and old europe, except for Denmark. This may be because they didn't believe in the WMD arguement, according to Pekka.

The US Army can't be stopped by an army equiped with old soviet stuff, no matter how large. Those expecting 20,000 casualties fighting the Iraqi army were fear mongering for political reasons.

The CIA needs people on the ground to develope credible intel. The major reason for going to war in the first place was bogus, and the resulting backlash hurt the presidency of GWB, though not badly as he was re-elected, and the credibility of the US.

Overseeing of the treatment of POWs is absolutely essential.

The US did not fabricate evidence of WMD. Those that said they would have no clue about what a democracy is or isn't capable of.

The US failed to be ready for the unexpected. The president didn't expect the post war resistance to be as strong and so wasn't ready, a major failing.

The left tends to demonize those with whom it disagrees. -Inspired by Diss's post.

The vast majority of Arabs, like other people in this world, do want to have a democracy and do not want to be ruled by ruthless dictators.-Inspired by Ned's post

*If you're selling a war for reasons that are not very clear, democratic nations will not join in (unless there's a great war booty). Out of being 'nice', no one joins.

*Put forward by a Finn.

What else?

NEW POST>>>

Ted, check out your third post and compare it to your second. This thing has been political the whole way. It must be viewed in that light.

Diss, excellent point. It's been fixed.

Pekka, it was an evil dictatorship that gassed and tortured its minorities and abused and kept down women... The WMD reason was put forward as the reason to go to war, but even without them it wasn't a bad decision imo. Anyway, make it short, what lesson would you like added?

Immortal,

[Boris Godunov]

And the notion that we wouldn't be encountering resistence if France and Germany were there is laughable. Why would anyone think that? All that would mean is that French and German kids would be getting blown up alongside ours. Who can blame them for not wanting that?

[Pekka]

"it was an evil dictatorship that gassed and tortured its minorities and abused and kept down women... The WMD reason was put forward as the reason to go to war, but even without them it wasn't a bad decision imo. Anyway, make it short, what lesson would you like added?"

So? It was all about WMDs in here. And majority didn't believe in it.

The fact is, French leaders and German leaders have responsibility over their country. I wouldn't send my boys in a war for reasons we don't believe to be real or true. Would you?

I do believe, that now that there is a mess ANYWAY, we should go in and help out. But that's a different story.

[Pekka]

OH, the lesson

OK the lesson is, if you're selling a war for reasons that are not very clear, democratic nations will not join in (unless there's a great war booty). Out of being 'nice', no one joins.

[Ned]

Pekka, IIRC, the majority of the people opposed the Iraq war because they viewed it as American Imperialism at work. Weapons of mass destruction, present or not, was of minor concern. People were against the war even if Saddam had them.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Pekka
OH, the lesson

OK the lesson is, if you're selling a war for reasons that are not very clear, democratic nations will not join in (unless there's a great war booty). Out of being 'nice', no one joins.

Not true. See my previous post.

[Lancer]

Boris, nobody in this thread made that assertion that I can tell.

"So? It was all about WMDs in here."-Pekka

So they just ignored all the hitlerish stuff Saddam was doing?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Pekka
Ted, Nah, I'm just overwhelmed by the argument where France and Germany sucks, after the fact that the WMDs weren't there, and the reasons for war were bogus. That's a paradox right there! ****, they were right, they didn't join, thus they are bastards.. Uhm?

It's realpolitiks in a way. Allies or not. Don't expect anyone to gear up for you, if you're making a hard sell.

What France did, for going against, now that's a .. that's something you could debate, I mean, why blocking if you could just say we won't go with it and then sit down and shut up. I'm not defending these actions.

ALl I'm saying is, they were right, we were wrong, so why some people are blaming anyone in here!?! Weird.

Besides, how cna a country be a friend and bastard every other day, depending what the news say? Go, travel, make friends, learn about places, and make your own judgement. 'France blocks the new cheese companies from selling their products in Paris'.. BASTARDS! No.. the real answer is, who the hell cares. No one is being unfriendly, except people who are going wild about france evil this germany evil that.

I agree

[Pekka]

Ned, good point, might be true. However, the facts are still on their side so there's nothing we can do about it. However, had there been WMDs, the view might be different now. Then again, it's a gamble... I mean, many countries intel thought there might be WMDs, not just the US. But the citizens, majority did not believe WMDs existed in Europe. I should know, since I was in the minority .

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
And the notion that we wouldn't be encountering resistence if France and Germany were there is laughable. Why would anyone think that? All that would mean is that French and German kids would be getting blown up alongside ours. Who can blame them for not wanting that?

[Pekka]

Lancer, No I don't think so, just that the reasons for going to war, meaning how it was sold were not good enough. Oppressing women etc etc.. hey, happens everywhere in the world.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Ned
People were against the war even if Saddam had them.

Not true

The United States Congress disagrees with you

[Lancer]

"Lancer, No I don't think so, just that the reasons for going to war, meaning how it was sold were not good enough. Oppressing women etc etc.. hey, happens everywhere in the world."

Saddam's Iraq was just like "everywhere in the world"? Pekka, did you see the video of the women in the soccer stadium? I'll never forget it. Can't...

[Ted Striker]

The genocide going on in Sudan was much worse at the time.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Lancer
"Lancer, No I don't think so, just that the reasons for going to war, meaning how it was sold were not good enough. Oppressing women etc etc.. hey, happens everywhere in the world."

Saddam's Iraq was just like "everywhere in the world"? Pekka, did you see the video of the women in the soccer stadium? I'll never forget it. Can't...

A minor geographical adjustment - that happend in Afghanistan.