Whoi knew a bunch of Japanese textbook could cause such trouble?

[DanS]

The Japanese are some of the biggest contributors to UN missions, for instance. Their civilized nature is apparent, for what that's worth.

[Odin]

The amount of BS in this thread astounds me. The textbooks in both countries are full of nationalistic crap. China's moaning is pure hypocracy. BOTH sides need to teach their kids honest history, not propaganda.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by DanS
Even if so, at a minimum, you will have to admit that judgment should be reserved until sales figures have been released on this textbook.

You would have to admit that it would be wrong for the German government to officially approve a textbook that denies the Holocaust. Likewise, you would have to admit it is wrong for the Japanese to approve a schoolbook that denies its crimes against humanity.

[DanS]

You would have to admit that it would be wrong for the German government to officially approve a textbook that denies the Holocaust.

It might be wrong to do so, but I would have to see the context to judge whether or not it's something that rises to the level of government-sponsored nationalist hatefests in the streets worthy of the cultural revolution.

All along, I thought the Chinese were fairly pragmatic and rational. It turns out they're not much better than the South Koreans.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Ah yes, there was a secret Chinese conspiracy that:
- forced the Japanese to whitewash its crimes;
- forced the Japanese to lay claim to South Korean islands;
- forced the Japanese to kill millions in China and the rest of Asia during WWII;
- and so on and so on.

The fact that you blame the Chinese for the Japanese provocations shows your true colours.

M Y
G O D !

Get over it. This is today. I don't care what happened 60 years ago. Anybody can bring up a bunch of **** from the past to start spreading hate for their own benefit. That doesn't make it right.

[Alexander's Horse]

News article today says Sino Japanese relations have hit a 33 year low - i.e. lowest since relations were normalised. Is this a fair assessment?

Any Japanese protesting?

Bad for the region this.

[Drake Tungsten]

Any Japanese protesting?

Not that I know of. A few anonymous threats to the Chinese embassy and consulates, but that's about it.

Bad for the region this.

Indeed. I have to wonder if the Chinese really got what they wanted out of this...

[Alexander's Horse]

I think the chinese authorities are taking a bit of a risk with this, once you light the fuse you never know who in the end will get blown up

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Tingkai


This is a new book, first written in 2001, and the latest edition was only recently approved so it is not surprising that it is just beginning to be used. (How many books published in 2001 would be in use in North American schools).

The number of schools using it is besides the point anyways.

Then why did you make such a big deal about it?

This is a book officially approved for use in schools by the Japanese government. Japan is trying to whitewash its crimes.

This is a rather large leap in logic, especially to condemn entire people.

Meanwhile, the Japanese government has fought for decades to censor a textbook written by Ienaga Saburo which describes the atrocities committed by the Japanese. He won a partial victory in 1997 that allowed his textbook to mention the Japanese biological warfare torture, but the Japanese government still has the power to censor textbooks, including Saburo's book.

All governments censor textbooks. Seems to me the Chinese should be showing support for those in Japan like Saburo and his defenders rather than engaging in violent protests asking for Japanese blood, which only feeds to right-wing extremists in Japan.

Ah yes, there was a secret Chinese conspiracy that:
- forced the Japanese to whitewash its crimes;

The level of this whitewash is in debate along with the type of response given by the Chinese at this time.

- forced the Japanese to lay claim to South Korean islands;

Again, this is a debatable claim. Why isn't it being debated?

- forced the Japanese to kill millions in China and the rest of Asia during WWII;

And that was over fifty years ago. Again, what were the Chinese doing during the first half of that period? Frankly, I feel that if China asks for an apology, Japan should just give it. What Japan did was simply wrong. However, time does heal wounds, Japan has spent the last fifty years engaging in peaceful policies while respecting its own rights, including that to exist. However, neighbors, like China (especially China) have become more militaristic and hostile, beoming the country they despise. But that Japan is long gone.

- and so on and so on.

This is vague.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Indeed. I have to wonder if the Chinese really got what they wanted out of this...

Not according to my waiban, who publicly declared yesterday that she was disappointed that no Japanese were killed during the protests.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Kidicious
M Y
G O D !

Get over it. This is today. I don't care what happened 60 years ago. Anybody can bring up a bunch of **** from the past to start spreading hate for their own benefit. That doesn't make it right.

Talk about irony. You sound just like the Beijing leaders who you despise. Every June 4, the pro-Beijing groups scream "get over it! What may have happened on June 4, 1989 is in the past.''

Last Sunday, pro-democracy groups, who are no friends of the Beijing government, held an anti-Japan protest. They did so for the same reason that they hold Tianamien memorials every June 4.

They are protesting something that is happening today, the whitewashing of history. And they are remembering the past.

It is one thing to forgive a country's past crimes, but when that country then denies those crimes took place, a new tragedy occurs.

For you, the Japanese atrocities are probably just some footnote in history. For many people here, the crimes committed by the Japanese are part of people's tragic family history. People here have relatives who were murdered or raped by the Japanese. People here witnessed the crimes or were victims.

You may not care about what happened in the past, but people here do care. Perhaps you should respect their feelings and try to understand why they are angry.

[Drake Tungsten]

I love how one textbook used by a tiny fraction of Japanese school kids is used as proof by morons like Tingkai that the entire country of Japan is denying the history of its actions in Asia...

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Tingkai

Last Sunday, pro-democracy groups, who are no friends of the Beijing government, held an anti-Japan protest. They did so for the same reason that they hold Tianamien memorials every June 4.

I seem to remember the Tiannanmen Square protest as peaceful and not calling for the death of a specific race of people. So I don't think that is a fair comparison, and it shows little respect for the true meaning of the Tiannanmen protests.

It is one thing to forgive a country's past crimes, but when that country then denies those crimes took place, a new tragedy occurs.

Again, you are blaming an entire country when you, yourself, offered evidence that this topic is just as controversial among the Japanese. Why are you so determined to blame them all?

For you, the Japanese atrocities are probably just some footnote in history. For many people here, the crimes committed by the Japanese are part of people's tragic family history. People here have relatives who were murdered or raped by the Japanese. People here witnessed the crimes or were victims.

You may not care about what happened in the past, but people here do care. Perhaps you should respect their feelings and try to understand why they are angry.

Most of the protestors never directly experienced any violence from Japan. They were all college students. So they weren't the victims. In fact, none of my students could give me examples of direct suffering their relatives went through under the Japanese. However, they will just fall silent, if they're asked about the Cultural Revolution.

I agee what the Japanese did was terrible. I do believe that the Japanese have shown a sincere regret for their history, but also, that more could be done on their part to heal these wounds. I do not agree with the Chinese government using this a tool for political ends. That shames the memory of those who died. Nor do I agree with the students using this an opportunity to express racism and violence.

Franky Tingkai, you've made a lot of assumptions about the motivations and thoughts of the Chinese, Japanese, and posters on this forum without backing them up. Your posts contain little more than anti-japanese vitriol and show an extreme lack of understanding of what goes on in Asia, especially mainland China. I'm sorry for being blunt (and I can already predict your response to me), but it's really difficult to sugarcoat a description of your actions on this forum. This isn't the only thread where you've shown blind loyalty toward China and attacked other posters because of it. I'm only surprised a mod has never intervened.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I love how one textbook used by a tiny fraction of Japanese school kids is used as proof by morons like Tingkai that the entire country of Japan is denying the history of its actions in Asia...

He's never been rational in these kinds of topics. His posts here read like he's foaming at the mouth. Yet, I'd still classify them as rather tame for him.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Tingkai
You may not care about what happened in the past, but people here do care. Perhaps you should respect their feelings and try to understand why they are angry.

I understand that this is about extreme nationalism, racial hatred and competition for resources. The demonstrations in China may be able to spread hatred within China but most of the rest of the world is disgusted by what they see in China. Do you really think that Japan is going to want to express their feelings of guilt now more after seeing this crap in China?