Whoi knew a bunch of Japanese textbook could cause such trouble?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Why don't you read the opening post, you moron? Do you think the Economist is lying?

Time, place, and person who did the apologising on behave of the Japanese government.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by mindseye
In the corner of the sign is a picture of Japanese PM Koizumi, the Chinese reads "Die, (expletive)", the expletive having a meaning something like "f*cker" or "b*stard".

Um, no. There's no expletive there.

[Drake Tungsten]

Time, place, and person who did the apologising on behave of the Japanese government.

http://www.google.com

[Urban Ranger]

Of course, Koizumi now denies that the protests have anything to do with Japan's revising of history. Apologies indeed.

[Alexander's Horse]

what Japan did in Asia is a still a searing memory - its amzing really because it made European colonialism seem not so bad - we get off lightly

[Drake Tungsten]

what Japan did in Asia is a still a searing memory - its amzing really because it made European colonialism seem not so bad - we get off lightly

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The Chinese may not hate the West as much as they hate Japan, but they still carry a grudge over what the Western colonial powers did to them...

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


I need to see the entire banner to be sure, because it can go one of the two ways, one of them a reminder of Japanese atrocities in China in WWII.

Yes, because this banner is central to the argument.

Hey UR! Which logical flaw is this one called?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Ned


DaShi, you know what I mean. I mean that virtually every Japanese soldier in China took part in the abuse of Chinese. This was not just some ugly SS organization that did it, while the Army was clean.

Then you don't know what I mean. Most of those soldier's are dead or soon will be. My point is the treatment of those Japanese who were born after the war and are ignorant of the events that occurred. Yes, the Japanese government is wrong to keep this information from them. But for the Chinese to target all Japanese is wrong as well.

I guess, the simple point is that there is a high road, but no one took it.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Time, place, and person who did the apologising on behave of the Japanese government.

Well, to be fair, Japan's leaders have not exactly been silent on the issue (as many Chinese believe).

The ways Japan has said sorry to its neighbours over the past. April 11, 2005.
(...)
Herewith some of the key statements by Japan on its past:

- June 1965: Japan establishes diplomatic relations with South Korea. Tokyo gives Seoul 800 million dollars in loans and grants. Seoul waives the right to compensation of Koreans who suffered under Japanese rule.

- September 1972: Japan normalizes relations with China. A joint communique says: "Japan is keenly conscious of its responsibility for the serious damage inflicted in the past on the Chinese people through war and deeply regrets it." China has refused compensation by Japan.

- May 1990: Emperor Akihito, the son of wartime emperor Hirohito, says during a banquet for visiting South Korean president Roh Tae-Woo: "I think of the sufferings your people underwent during this unfortunate period, which was brought about by my country, and cannot but feel deep regret." Then premier Toshiki Kaifu goes further in his summit with Roh: "I would like to take this opportunity to express my sincere remorse and apology for Japan's acts that made people on the Korean Peninsula suffer unbearable agony and sorrow during a period in the past." He notably did not use the words "colonial rule" or "aggression."

- October 1992: Emperor Akihito on a historic visit to Beijing tells a banquet hosted by president Yang Shangkun: "In the long history of relationship between our two countries, there was an unfortunate period in which my country inflicted great sufferings on the people of China. I deeply deplore this."

- November 1993: Morihiro Hosokawa, the first Japanese prime minister in more than 37 years not to come from the Liberal Democratic Party, says on a visit to South Korea: "I would like to offer my heartfelt remorse and apology as assailants for the unbearable pain and sorrow people on the Korean Peninsula experienced when they were deprived of being able to learn their mother tongue and forced to change their names to Japanese ones and through the recruitment as comfort women, forced labor and various other ways."

- August 1995: In a landmark statement, prime minister Tomiichi Murayama - only the second socialist to head a Japanese government - apologizes on the 50th anniversary of the end of World War II. "During a certain period in the not too distant past, Japan, following a mistaken national policy, advanced along the road to war, only to ensure the Japanese people in a fateful crisis and, through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly to those of Asian countries," Murayama says. "In the hope that no such mistakes be made in the future, I regard, in a spirit of humanity, these irrefutable facts of history and express here once again my feelings of deep remorse and state my heartfelt apology."

- June 1996: Prime minister Ryutaro Hashimoto, in a meeting with South Korean president Kim Young-Sam, apologizes for sexual enslavement of "comfort women." "Nothing injured the honour and dignity of your women more than this and I would like to extend words of soul-searching and apology from the bottom of my heart," Hashimoto says.

- October 1998: Prime minister Keizo Obuchi apologizes in a joint statement with South Korean president Kim Dae-Jung. Obuchi says in the statement that Japan "sincerely recognized the historical fact that our country inflicted tremendous damage and suffering on the people of South Korea through the colonial rule during a certain period of the past and expressed deep remorse and a heartfelt apology over this." Obuchi said later that he spoke on behalf of the Japanese government and Kim said the statement should settle the countries' troubles over their past.

- November 1998: Obuchi repeats Murayama's 1995 apology during a summit with Chinese president Jiang Zemin. The two countries issue a joint statement in which Japan expresses its "deep remorse" over its past.

Source: EastSouthWestNorth, an excellent blog.

These may not be full-on official state apologies, but I think they qualify for something more than "none, zilch, nada."

While we're on the topic, it's interesting that Chinese are so fired up about Japan's textbooks, but don't comment much on the distortions in their own textbooks, which leads to an entire population actually believing things like China has never started a war of aggression.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DaShi
Yes, because this banner is central to the argument.

Hey UR! Which logical flaw is this one called?

Does the word "context" mean anything to you?

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Um, no. There's no expletive there.

Aren't the first two characters ya bi? That's not an expletive?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by mindseye
These may not be full-on official state apologies, but I think they qualify for something more than "none, zilch, nada."

When I said none, I meant there was none coming from somebody (Emperor or Prime Minister) who did it on behave of the entire country. In 1998 or thereabouts it came the closest, when non-LDP parties were in power. Unfortunately, after that, the entire politcal scene in Japan veed clearly to the right. Probably having something to do with the long term recession in the country - and that is what scares others. This whole thing has a eerie, chilling parallel to the events in Japan in the early 1930's.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by mindseye
Aren't the first two characters ya bi? That's not an expletive?

Lets see. The first "character" look like the letter "Y," which isn't Chinese AFAIK. Okay, it can be a very badly written ya. The second one is indeed bi. However the term ya bi doesn't mean anything. OTOH, bi and the last character ("die") makes sense together.

[mindseye]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Does the word "context" mean anything to you?

Well, I think DaShi's point is, the poster is ancillary to both DaShi's and my personal observations of routinely hearing with our own ears Chinese people say they hate all Japanese.

I think you can ask just about any foreigner who lives here - or any mainland Chinese, for that matter, It's not like it's a secret. In fact, I'm quite surprised you doubt this. Don't you ever spend time in the mainland?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I wouldn't be so sure about that. The Chinese may not hate the West as much as they hate Japan, but they still carry a grudge over what the Western colonial powers did to them...

Oh I know grudges are held in various parts of Asia - but it took the Japanese to show just how bad colonialism could be. It made the European powers look better than they deserved.