Biggest Mistakes the Axis made iyo.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by molly bloom



Absolutely. An uneasy truce had persisted between the Soviet Union and Japan in Asia after all, despite the Soviet's previous military successes against them, and despite Japan being Germany's ally and the German triumphs in the early Russian campaign.

I suspect that German sinking of American merchant marine would have eventually constituted a sufficiently big enough casus belli- but it's still a 'what if?' .

Not at all. The treaty with Japan said that any two country would have to declare war to any occidental power that was at war with the other. It specifically left out Russia.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Not at all. The treaty with Japan said that any two country would have to declare war to any occidental power that was at war with the other. It specifically left out Russia.

Ah yes, interwar treaties. Those famous bits of paper....

[Dry]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Except that just about everyone there is French and speak French.

That's true today. It wans't then.
Alsace-Lorraine was french since 1648, but Alsace and part of Lorraine spoke almost only German until late 19th century.
That was the excuse for the Prussians (and Nazi Germans later) to annex Alsace-Lorraine: alsacians speak German, so they are Germans.
It was the clash between the German concept of nation, linking people to language (and language to people) and the French one, making no such link.

[Mr. Harley]

How many dialects, and actual seperate languages, went into the creation of what has become modern France. I know the political entities, but I have no clue about the linguistic map except for the primary languages today - and Breton which is a Celtic language. For example, did the Burgundians have their own language/dialect? I've also heard the term Norman French, implying some sort of dialect, at least in the context of the middle ages.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
How many dialects, and actual seperate languages, went into the creation of what has become modern France. I know the political entities, but I have no clue about the linguistic map except for the primary languages today - and Breton which is a Celtic language. For example, did the Burgundians have their own language/dialect? I've also heard the term Norman French, implying some sort of dialect, at least in the context of the middle ages.

Norman French, Provencal, Basque, Gascon French, the Italianate territories next to Piedmont-Savoy, bits of Spain picked up in the Thirty Years' War... and the various Creoles from Martinique to Reunion of course.

http://french.about.com/od/dialfrance/index_a.htm

Should help you out.

[Ned]

Originally posted by MRT144
only ned would turn a thread about nazis into a thread about how evil democrats are. youre such a *****made republican ned, just come clean.

MRT, if you note my posts over time, I have high praise for some Democrats and tremendous scorn for some Republicans. What I do not understand, though, is how the Democrat party, as a whole, can and does still honor its founder, Andrew Jackson, who personifies the evil we now condemn when speaking of Hitler.

[Ned]

shawn, good post. De Toqueville did described the hunting of animals by the Indians as critical to the incompatiblity between to two cultures. He noted that the primary thing the Indians had to trade with the Euro's was pelts. To get steel knifes, for example, Indians had to overhunt their territory. This had the unfortunate effect of depleting their source of food, forcing them to sell their land and move West.

That may Euro's cheated or tried to cheat the Indians of their land is not beyond doubt. But this is different in kind than what we hear here so often about what happened to the North American Indians: continuous ethnic cleansing by wars of extermination.

There were many shameful incidents in our relations to the natives. But I still rank up there at the very top what Jackson did to the Cherokees after they had won their case at the Supreme Court.

[Ned]

The reason I place the alliance with Japan so high on Hitler's list of mistakes is that it truly brought the US into active hostility to Germany. We had no true beef with Germany, not in the way we had a beef with Japan. That alliance forced us to begin cooperating with France, England and the Dutch in ways we had not done before.

True, the declaration of war by Hitler was a mistake. But even if Hitler had not declared war, we were fully committed to Lend Lease. As our convoys went to the bottom supplying England and Russia, we soon would have been in the war regardless, IMHO.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Ned


MRT, if you note my posts over time, I have high praise for some Democrats and tremendous scorn for some Republicans. What I do not understand, though, is how the Democrat party, as a whole, can and does still honor its founder, Andrew Jackson, who personifies the evil we now condemn when speaking of Hitler.

ive seen quite the oppisite in every one of your posts. You condemn the left for anything and everything, while letting rightist transgressions to the brink of absurd go unscathed.

you may admire some democrats but nothing you have EVER posted has made anyone believe you are anything than a rightwing fanboy

[Ned]

Originally posted by MRT144


ive seen quite the oppisite in every one of your posts. You condemn the left for anything and everything, while letting rightist transgressions to the brink of absurd go unscathed.

you may admire some democrats but nothing you have EVER posted has made anyone believe you are anything than a rightwing fanboy

If you think that being pro-American, pro-democracy and pro-capitalism is right wing, I am guilty. But you cannot begin to tell me that all Democrat presidents were anti-American, etc. That is why there were many good Democrat presidents.

Jackson, was not, however.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned
shawn, good post. De Toqueville did described the hunting of animals by the Indians as critical to the incompatiblity between to two cultures. He noted that the primary thing the Indians had to trade with the Euro's was pelts. To get steel knifes, for example, Indians had to overhunt their territory. This had the unfortunate effect of depleting their source of food, forcing them to sell their land and move West.

Native tribes DID NOT move west voluntarilly- tribes were forced to move west by the pressure of western settlers. There were certainly campaigns of ethnic cleansing in New Englamd (please name New England tribes that migrated west..). The one main exmaples we do have, of the Cherokees, was a forced migration (which classifies as ethnic cleansing). If migrations had been voluntary, tribes would have gone whereever, NOT to some designated spot of land created by the Federal government.

That may Euro's cheated or tried to cheat the Indians of their land is not beyond doubt. But this is different in kind than what we hear here so often about what happened to the North American Indians: continuous ethnic cleansing by wars of extermination.

What history have you been reading? A simple and obvious example of attempts to exterminate the Natives comes from the events after the Civil War- for example, the senseless wholesale extermination of the Buffalo, in order to starve the plains tribes. Then there are campaigns by the likes of Custer and the burning of whole villages-Sheridan saying "the only good Indian in a dead Indian" tells volumes about the attitudes towards the natives. Then of course comes the attempt to exterminate Indian culture once they are forced by military force to enter reservations and the banning of their own traditions.

Only you Ned would state that there were only "shameful incidents".

There were many shameful incidents in our relations to the natives. But I still rank up there at the very top what Jackson did to the Cherokees after they had won their case at the Supreme Court.

That certainly is a high one- the constant breaking of treaties ratified by the Senate is another- acts just as unconstitutional but never punished.

Reservations are fancy names for internment camps.

[MRT144]

ned, youre against anything that questions right wing america, even if its absurd. you go to great lengths to take on leftist america etc etc.

i am not arguing that democrats are good or bad. im arguing that your purported beliefs and stated beliefs on this board are entirely at odds, and this is why people dont listen to you, and give you no credibility.

[Ned]

Originally posted by MRT144
ned, youre against anything that questions right wing america, even if its absurd. you go to great lengths to take on leftist america etc etc.

i am not arguing that democrats are good or bad. im arguing that your purported beliefs and stated beliefs on this board are entirely at odds, and this is why people dont listen to you, and give you no credibility.

mrt, in a way, true. For example, even though I am not religious myself, I tend to defend religious freedom which I perceive to be under attack from the left.

As to no one listening to me, I hardly think that is the case. But if it is, I will stop bothering you kind folks, as my presence here is not welcome.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Ned

As to no one listening to me, I hardly think that is the case. But if it is, I will stop bothering you kind folks, as my presence here is not welcome.

MRT!! You hurt Neds feelings. Now apologize at once!!

Ned, speaking for me, your are welcome to state any opinion if you beleive in it, may we agree with it or not. That's what makes for a great argument/conversation.

Spec.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by molly bloom



Ah yes, interwar treaties. Those famous bits of paper....

Huh? what do you mean to imply?