Biggest Mistakes the Axis made iyo.

[Tingkai]

Reading through this thread, one thing that strikes me is how stupid the Germans were. Time and time again, the Germans made fatal errors that cost them the war. How do you choose the worst mistake from all of the colossal errors commited by those fools.

[Micha]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Reading through this thread, one thing that strikes me is how stupid the Germans were. Time and time again, the Germans made fatal errors that cost them the war. How do you choose the worst mistake from all of the colossal errors commited by those fools.

First of all, watch your language. It´s not as if we were talking about an ancient civ no longer present...

Second, most mistakes the German side made during the war had their origin in Hitler´s constant overruling of the Generals. They were brilliant strategists while Hitler was a politician.

[Ned]

Micha, your analysis is correct. Had Germany stopped when its "just" demands were met, the war would quickly have ended with Germany restored to most of its WWI borders. The world clearly would not have been united in an effort to defeat what they perceived to be a monsterous regime.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Reading through this thread, one thing that strikes me is how stupid the Germans were.

Substitute Nazis for Germans and I'd agree with you.


Despite one of the most repellent police-terror states in history, there were still moral and courageous Germans who worked against the regime, at home and abroad, and paid for it with their lives.

There were gifted strategists and tacticians working for someone who thought he knew best- and another gaudy pompous fool who also thought he knew best.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Micha


First of all, watch your language. It´s not as if we were talking about an ancient civ no longer present...

Second, most mistakes the German side made during the war had their origin in Hitler´s constant overruling of the Generals. They were brilliant strategists while Hitler was a politician.

Had the war been left to the top generals it might have stalled in France in 1940, since most of them were against the surprise thrust through the Ardennes forest that Hitler favored. The generals favored a sort of replay of the 1914 Shlieffen plan consisting a a broad "swinging door" advance through the low countries into France. We can only guess as to whether this plan would have worked or failed.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Substitute Nazis for Germans and I'd agree with you.


Despite one of the most repellent police-terror states in history, there were still moral and courageous Germans who worked against the regime, at home and abroad, and paid for it with their lives.

The German people as a whole do bear a responsibility for what the Nazies done. They allowed their culture and their name to be used as excuses for what happened. I'm sure there were many fine people in Germany and many that risked their lives to resist and help jews but the fact remains most did look on and allow it to happen. They allowed thugs and criminals to run their goverment and nation into the ground all in the name of their self pity over the First World War and dreams of a great German state. They were victims of the Nazies sure, but they were passive victims and I suspect would have gladly forgotten all that occured if history had been different and Germany had not been totally defeated. Americans gladly forgot all that was done to Native Americans because we were by and large successful in our actions.

[Mr. Harley]

Also the flawed nature of the Weimer constitution, which is what was truly critical for Hitler's ascent. I just tried to do some quick research, and could not find an easy answer for how the critical flaw in the constitution, the portions about governing by decree, got inserted. Without that Hitler very well might not have gotten into power.

By that argument (the German people as a whole do bear a responsibility...) I bear responsibility for Bush and the attack on Iraq part deus, when I have opposed him and the changes in the Republican party every way I can. I've buried family due to the stupid f**king war. More Americans genuinely voted for Bush and the Republicans than voted for Hitler. If you read, most Germans were caught totally off guard by the almost instant ascent of the Nazis, and given the speed with which they consolidated power were largely powerless to do anything. Like most people in that situation, they went on quietly and tried to ignore the problems. That was the best they could do as a whole (unless you wanted to end up in a camp) once the Nazis had control of the State Police and the Military.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Their struggle was to keep the USSR going and able to fight.

You have it backwards; the USSR's struggle was to give the US time to invade France. Clearly the Russians who died in WWII did so on the Western front.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Indeed. Would the US factories that made the lend lease material also be the eastern front?

Well, if you go far enough east, you'd eventually hit them...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Or that Germany was just reclaiming land stolen from them after WWI (Danzig). Plus some interest.

Remind me not to borrow from any Germans...

[Micha]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Also the flawed nature of the Weimer constitution, which is what was truly critical for Hitler's ascent. I just tried to do some quick research, and could not find an easy answer for how the critical flaw in the constitution, the portions about governing by decree, got inserted. Without that Hitler very well might not have gotten into power.

As I have just helped my sister in her history classes (about the Weimar Republic) I can tell you how it got inserted: It was in there right from the start. The President was given the right to react to national crisis by overruling the Parliament, and he was in fact able to dissolve it and to put the entire government in place.

The constitution was created while Germany was in the middle of a Communist revolution. Only by a small margin the "Social Democrats" got the majority, otherwise the Communists would have created the new Republic. To ensure that the order could be restored in times of revolutions (there were still many cities declaring their own Republics), the President was given those powers. He was meant to rule directly while the crisis lasts, and to return the reign to Parliament after things calmed down. Unfortunately there was much room for abuse. Hitler was not the first to rule without the Parliament: From 1930 on the "Presdidential Cabinets" used decrees to bypass the Parliament. It was a time of troubles, and Hitler simply seized the opportunity. In fact he was lifted to the throne by Hindenburg (a WW1 war hero and very respected politician, President by that time) as the fourth Chancellor in a row within only three years. The others all pissed off either the people, the military or the President. Hitler was - in respect to the political and economic situation - the best man to chose. He ended the power struggles after the World Economic Crisis and restored order - too much order - in the Reich. He reconsolidated the economy and improved the living conditions of most Germans (of course not those of the Jews...). So he was seen as a genius with some strange views, but overall a good statesman in the early 1930´s.

By that argument (the German people as a whole do bear a responsibility...) I bear responsibility for Bush and the attack on Iraq part deus, when I have opposed him and the changes in the Republican party every way I can. I've buried family due to the stupid f**king war. More Americans genuinely voted for Bush and the Republicans than voted for Hitler. If you read, most Germans were caught totally off guard by the almost instant ascent of the Nazis, and given the speed with which they consolidated power were largely powerless to do anything. Like most people in that situation, they went on quietly and tried to ignore the problems. That was the best they could do as a whole (unless you wanted to end up in a camp) once the Nazis had control of the State Police and the Military.

Excellent post. Was about to write something similar. It´s not an excuse, but a very good explaination for the general behaviour of the Germans at that time.

[Mr. Harley]

Micha - nice succinct review. So it was inserted due to the Boshevik unrest in Germany, which was very real at the time. Many people don't realize that the right-wing parties were largely a reaction to the Communists, which were a real threat at the time. So that is why it got inserted, not at the Allies insistance but do to the context of the turmoil in Germany at the time. I was suspicious that something like that might be the case. Also, and I wonder, if the German authoritarian tradition had a bearing on making that "acceptable".

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Sprayber



The German people as a whole do bear a responsibility for what the Nazies done. They allowed their culture and their name to be used as excuses for what happened. I'm sure there were many fine people in Germany and many that risked their lives to resist and help jews but the fact remains most did look on and allow it to happen. They allowed thugs and criminals to run their goverment and nation into the ground all in the name of their self pity over the First World War and dreams of a great German state. They were victims of the Nazies sure, but they were passive victims and I suspect would have gladly forgotten all that occured if history had been different and Germany had not been totally defeated. Americans gladly forgot all that was done to Native Americans because we were by and large successful in our actions.

I think we can safely say they've learned their lesson.

[Micha]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Also, and I wonder, if the German authoritarian tradition had a bearing on making that "acceptable".

Clearly, yes. The Weimar Republic, in fact, only prevailed during the early 1920´s because of the strong position of the President. The office was also called "Substitute Kaiser (Emperor)", somewhat keeping a bit of monarchism for the conservatives.

When Friedrich Ebert, Social Democrat and lead figure of the non-communist Republican revolution, allied himself with the military and the old administrative machinery it was seen as an act of treason against socialist ideals, but it ensured the Socialist victory over the Communists and stabilized the country. This alliance (made before the constitution was created) has - IMO - also influenced the Republican constitution, especially the strong position of the head of state.

[TCO]

Why are all you computer gamers so obsessively knowledgeable about WW2?