Biggest Mistakes the Axis made iyo.

[MRT144]

passes the time i suppose

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Sprayber



The German people as a whole do bear a responsibility for what the Nazies done.

Do all Americans bear responsibility for the crimes of Nixon and the Klan ?

An absurd assertion.

[Dr Strangelove]

Nixon had significant opposition and was eventually brought down by Americans, not by foreign intervention. The Klan was technically illegal and was brought down at least twice, again by Americans.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Nixon had significant opposition and was eventually brought down by Americans, not by foreign intervention. The Klan was technically illegal and was brought down at least twice, again by Americans.

It's irrelevant who brought down Nixon and the Klan are still active, as I recall.

Willy Brandt and Pastor Niemoller should have felt guilty about Hitler and the Nazi Party ?
Willy Brandt:

'With the invasion of the German Army in 1940 Brandt was forced to move to Sweden. For the rest of the Second World War Brandt gave support to the German resistance movement. '

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERbrandtW.htm

Not all Germans supported Hitler, and not all Germans sat on their hands and did nothing.


Albert Speer on Niemoller and Hitler:

‘He had another such fit of rage at Pastor Niemöller in 1937. Niemöller had once again delivered a rebellious sermon in Dahlem [as had many other of the more evangelistic and conservative Lutheran Pastors and Priests]; at the same time transcripts of his tapped telephone conversations were presented to Hitler. In a bellow, Hitler ordered Niemöller to be put in a concentration camp and, since he had proven himself to be incorrigible, kept there for life. Pastors and Priests were then sent to camps for their dissidence and by 1938 the country had been declared free of the church.’ (p. 98)

From Speer's 'Third Reich' .

[Ned]

Originally posted by Sprayber


Americans gladly forgot all that was done to Native Americans because we were by and large successful in our actions.

Done to the Native Americans?

My God, this generation certainly has been brainwashed.

[Spiffor]

What do you mean, Ned?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned


Done to the Native Americans?

My God, this generation certainly has been brainwashed.

How so? Are you claiming American actions against the native inhabitants of this continent were not at minimum a classic example of ethnic cleasing?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by molly bloom
It's irrelevant who brought down Nixon and the Klan are still active, as I recall.

The Klan are still active, but not as a terror organization.

[GePap]

IN term of Nazi mistake during the war, I think it defeats the exercise to then say the entire enterprise was a mistake- otherwise, what is the point? Ditto on the Nazxi brutality. The whole point of Hitler's war (separated here from the longer term Japanese attempt tp dominate Asia which began prior to Hitler's rise to power) was a racial one. So, it makes a bit more sense to question what mistakes the Nazi's made in fulfilling their own aims, ie. the destruction of Jews in their lands, the enslavement and death of the slavic peoples and the creation of a vast new Germany-which was Hitler's plan all along.

1. Failing to mobilize the state for total war earlier-the Germans were outproduced during the war even by the British simply because they failed to fully arm the state until late- the reason German war production peaked in 1944 at the height of allied strategic bombing is that only in 1944 was German war industry fully mobilized. Had this been true all along Germany might have been able to have a fully mechanized army like the US had by say 1943. Whether they would have had the fuel to support his is another matter. HItler failed to do this because well into the war he wanted the full impact of war to be kept from the German populace, including the suffering and even rationing.

2. Delcaring war on the US unnecessarily.

3. Failing to get the British out of the war prior to invading the Soviet union- specifically by not destroying the BEF in Francfe and shifting attacks from the airfields and radar stations to London and other cities.

As for the Japanese and their war to conquer asia:

1. Not resolving the army-navy debate sooner- the Japanese Army wanted to go north vs the Soviets, the Navy south- this debate was not ended until 1939 (two years into their war in China and 8 years after their first moves into Manchuria) when it was clear the Japanese army was no match for the red army.

2. The previously mentioned Japanese Naval doctrine that doomed them.

[Kuciwalker]

Oh, and re: the OP, their biggest mistake was losing.

[Ned]

In 1927 the entire Nazi membership was only 40,000. Yet by the depths of the depression of 1932, the Nazis were the most successful party in the country, although still garnering only 38 percent of the vote. Many right-wing military and civilian leaders thought that Hitler could be effectively manipulated and so, with the backing of several prominent businessmen, they succeeded in having him named chancellor on January 30, 1933.

Their belief that Hitler would be a Nazi figurehead was soon shattered, however. To secure supreme power for himself as the nation’s Führer (leader), Hitler blamed a fire in the Reichstag building on the Communists, banned the Communist Party, and called new elections. Even in this highly coercive atmosphere, the Nazis still did not obtain an absolute majority in the new Reichstag. Nevertheless, together with their political allies, they succeeded in passing the revolutionary Enabling Act, which granted the government dictatorial powers over all aspects of German life.

Armed with this power, Hitler set out to create a new totalitarian, nationalist empire, the Third Reich. The groundwork had been laid in the old Prussian militarist tradition and in World War I, when the military ran the government. From that foundation, Hitler proceeded with formidable efficiency. He consolidated legislative, executive, judicial, and military authority and then assumed that authority himself. He also became head of state after the death of President von Hindenburg in 1934. The Nazis combined extreme nationalism and political authoritarianism to produce a fascist state, akin to the states created in Italy by Benito Mussolini and in Spain by Francisco Franco.

© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap


How so? Are you claiming American actions against the native inhabitants of this continent were not at minimum a classic example of ethnic cleasing?

The relations between the two cultures were inherently incompatible. Hunting-gathering could not take place near agricultural society for numbers of reasons. This lead to starvation to the Natives and to warfare, to which the Europeans responded. The process gradually forced all native tribes to retreat West, except for the Cherokees who had adopted agriculture. Jackson took care of them.

In the end, the problem of incompatibility of cultures was solved by a promise of the US goverment to support the Natives who would stay on reservations.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Spiffor
What do you mean, Ned?

See my response GePap. It seems that modern history taught to most Americans paints a picture of evil Europeans conducting a war of genocide against Native Americans. Where this thinking came from, but the truth lies elsewhere.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Jackson took care of them.

I don't know anything about Jackson and the Cherokees. Could you please tell me what you mean with that statemnt?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned


The relations between the two cultures were inherently incompatible. Hunting-gathering could not take place near agricultural society for numbers of reasons. This lead to starvation to the Natives and to warfare, to which the Europeans responded. The process gradually forced all native tribes to retreat West, except for the Cherokees who had adopted agriculture. Jackson took care of them.

In the end, the problem of incompatibility of cultures was solved by a promise of the US goverment to support the Natives who would stay on reservations.

The Cherokees are a perfect example, of one tribe that attempted to overcome that "cultural incompatability" to which the US response was the takling of their lands and a forced march west-that is ethnic cleansing. The Iriquois confenderacy met a similar end, thoguht there I guess you would say it was OK as retribution for support of the British in the war of independence.

This is the Nedaverse at its height- "cultural incompatability" is not an excuse for ethnic cleasing and attempts at cultural genocide. After all, a decision of which cultures are "uncompatbile" can be made by anyone- heck, hitler certainly did see German culture as incompatible with inferior Slav culture. I guess it would have been OK if the Slavs had been limited to their own "reservations"