Schiavo Thread Part the Third

[Ned]

Rufus, no doubt that Limbaugh and others on the right are trying to make this a political issue. But that simply ignores that the left is trying to do so as well. The politicians, in large measure, to date, are not. You cannot even tell me, can you, the position of the DNC or Hillary Clinton on this matter, can you? Did you know that even Ted Kennedy is now on the save Terri bandwagon. (If I heard correctly.) How can Republicans make this an issue when very prominent liberals are coming out for Terri as well?

[Drake Tungsten]

Looks like the Schindlers are getting one more chance...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20050330/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

Not sure what good it will do, even if the court grants the hearing and then orders the feeding tube reinserted. Terri's probably gone to long with food and water to survive by this point.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Ned
Rufus, no doubt that Limbaugh and others on the right are trying to make this a political issue. But that simply ignores that the left is trying to do so as well. The politicians, in large measure, to date, are not. You cannot even tell me, can you, the position of the DNC or Hillary Clinton on this matter, can you? Did you know that even Ted Kennedy is now on the save Terri bandwagon. (If I heard correctly.) How can Republicans make this an issue when very prominent liberals are coming out for Terri as well?

Bullsh*t. If anything, it's their typical we-don't-want-to-make-waves wimpiness that's kept the Dems from taking political advantage of this. As usual.

As for the DNC position on this, of course I can tell you what it is: that difficult decisions like these are a family matter and, when families are torn by internal disagreement, they must still be bound by the rule of law. Pretty f*cking radical, isn't it? Those dirty liberals...

I feel for this woman. I feel for her family. And I think most people, on either side of the issue, are well-intentioned people of conscience. But Tom DeLay, Ann Coulter, and their ilk have sh!t all over the notions of personal privacy, legal precedent, and state sovereignty that were once the very heart of American conservativism, and have done so for no better reason than naked political pandering.

Forget the folks on this board; we're just here blowing off steam. Show me one prominent liberal or moderate -- just one -- who has said anything as vile, offensive, or extreme as the garbage that's been regularly spewing out of the mouths of conservative leaders and their friends in the punditry about this case. You can't. That might be because liberals and moderates are wishy-washy, lacking the instinct for the jugular than has made the GOP what it is today. Or it may be because they have a shred of decency left.

There's a principled argument to be made for keeping Terri alive, and I think that, in your usual through-the-looking-glass way, you've been trying to make it. But when you fail to acknowledge that not everyone on your side of the issue is there for the same reason that you are, and when you fail too see that this has become the pathetic circus it is entirely because of shameless conservative opportunists, you look the fool.

[Ned]

Two more nurses (just saw them on FoxNews):

1) A nurse who took care of Terri from '95-6 said that Michael injected Terri with insulin.

2) Heidi Law, a nurse who took care of Terri from '96-97 said the same thing. She also said that at time that Terri could swallow and that she would feed Terri jellow and water.

She also said that after Michael got the malpractice award, he dramatically cut back on Terri's care.

He also tried to kill her, it appears.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Just suppose, Horse, that this case was a miscarriage of justice

That's what appeals are for, and there have been a ****load of those.

[Ned]

Well, Rufus, if the "save Terri" position is as unpopular as pollster's say, I doubt politicians will try to make an issue of it. Besides, it appears that many of that position are mad at the two Bushes for not doing enough to save Terri.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Just suppose, Horse, that this case was a miscarriage of justice

That's what appeals are for, and there have been a ****load of those.

True. But please mention that their scope of review of findings of fact is limited to "abuse of discretion." They cannot retry a case. The appeals court here have been bound by the record below, and have been totally unwilling to listen to newly discovered evidence on the issue of consent or hear any witnesses of Michael's abuse of Terri, both at the time of the event and during the perior post the malpractice award where everyone who knows what happened seemed to agree that he formed the intent to do away with Terri.

Also, aren't you in the least bit schocked on how the Judge allowed the Schiavo brother and sister-in-law to testify in the manner he did?

[Mr. Harley]

Ned - nice post reference the stem cells (I am talking cloned adult stem cells typically, i.e. with the nucleus implanted from the adult into embryonic totipotent stem cells). However, if you rebuilt the brain, guess what - the entity that resulted would not be Terri Schiavo. The brain cells are DEAD. Terri is dead. And you still haven't replied to query refence 10 minutes without a pulse at normal room temperature. I gave you the American Academy of Neurosciences cite - you haven't dealt with that issue, yet - i.e. she is never going to recover.

By the way, SF has been talking about this issue for years, i.e. reconstructing brain tissue after brain death. Almost every author presupposes some way of recording the memories in the brain, and then essentially overlaying them onto the new brain cells. Science Fantasy, IMHO, even worse then FTL travel. However, the stories do bring up the issues of identity, inheritance, just what constitutes who we are, etc. An entirely different thread topic.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But please mention that their scope of review of findings of fact is limited to "abuse of discretion."

Any "miscarriage of justice" falls under abuse of discretion, Ned. They can decide that the trial court judge was wrong in the evidence he procured.

Also, aren't you in the least bit schocked on how the Judge allowed the Schiavo brother and sister-in-law to testify in the manner he did?

I haven't heard of any of the charges levied at the judge on this until you said it, so I'll need more proof before I believe your word on this.

And if it was so egregious, an appeals could would have remanded it, but they didn't.

[mindseye]

Billmon is back:

Christian Soldier

The legal battle over the life of Terri Schiavo may have ended, but a thick, fervent crowd remains in the makeshift encampment outside the Woodside Hospice House here . . .

No, we're not going to go home," said Bill Tierney, a young daughter at his side. "Terri is not dead until she's dead" . . .

Mr. Tierney, a former military intelligence officer in Iraq who works as a translator and investigator for private companies, cried as he talked about watching the Schiavo spectacle on television and feeling the utter need to be at the hospice.

New York Times
Protesters With Hearts on Sleeves and Anger on Signs
March 28, 2005

----

Bill Tierney . . . had just returned from eight months working as an interrogator for US forces in Baghdad, and had come to talk, on the record, about torture.
''The Brits came up with an expression – wog,'' Tierney said. ''That stands for Wily Oriental Gentleman. There's a lot of wiliness in that part of the world.''. . .

After explaining his various psychological tactics to the audience, interrogator Bill Tierney (a private contractor working with the Army) said, ''I tried to be nuanced and culturally aware. But the suspects didn't break.''

Suddenly Tierney's temper rose. ''They did not break!'' he shouted. ''I'm here to win. I'm here so our civilization beats theirs! Now what are you willing to do to win?'' he asked, pointing to a woman in the front row. ''You are the interrogators, you are the ones who have to get the information from the Iraqis. What do you do? That word 'torture'. You immediately think, 'That's not me.' But are we litigating this war or fighting it?'' . . .

Asked about Abu Ghraib, Tierney said that for an interrogator, ''sadism is always right over the hill. You have to admit it. Don't fool yourself – there is a part of you that will say, 'This is fun.' ''

Boston Globe
Spy world
February 13, 2005

[mindseye]

Found this interesting example of the media's "liberal bias" at Democratic Underground...

First, a graph published by CNN.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
In other news there is a morbidly funny Schiavo blog out.

http://durrrrr.blogspot.com/

The comments are the best part!

[mindseye]

Courtesy Media Matters, the same data, but this time using a less arbitrary Y-axis range of 0% - 100%.

Gee, the conveyed message is a little different! Now factor in the 7% margin of error, and the CNN graph starts to look downright misleading.

[DinoDoc]

Misleading? Both graphs say the same thing, mindseye.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Che, I cited Limbaugh not to pursuade you in any manner -- only to recite the relevant facts on Elian.

Now, the problem here is you're using facts and Limbaugh in the same sentence.