Do you support grade/discipline based segregation in schools ?

[MRT144]

it doesnt matter sometimes how hard they bust your ass, the kid will fight it.

i guess my question is, if you dont think the kids should be there, why have compulsry education for them anyway. if they are poor students when they are 5 years old, lets not waste anymore time on them when they are 15

[Mrs. Tuberski]

What are you gonna bust his ass for not beings as smart as the other kids? I have to ride my oldest kid everyday he is adhd but still hes lazy to, cause to many people have told him hes dumb. I work with him every day and regularly. My other two are staight a kids but i dont want them moved anywhere. I want them to gain insight on what is like to be smart and proudof yourself cause they can help other kids. Which my daughter has done so far.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And the competitive spirit this encourages is very good . If the thing is evaluated every month , on the basis of the record of the past six months , then the academic boundaries become permeable and fluid , thus not forcing anyone to be anywhere except where they deserve . Monthly re-appraisals on the basis of the past record of six months is necessary for the system to work and for the three classes not to stratify .

Can we have a promotion / relegation system among the tiers?

[Dis]

I don't have much more to add, but I just read that teachers in the U.S. now have SAT scores less than 800

You can seperate them all you want, but you still need quality teachers.

I do agree with some minor seperation as I said earlier, and maybe even seperating boys and girls (we can teach them to interact during non academic classes), but that can only do so much.

And I don't agree with ther teacher/pupil ratio the liberals keep *****ing about. That again means nothing when teachers have SAT scores lower than 800.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Dissident
I don't have much more to add, but I just read that teachers in the U.S. now have SAT scores less than 800

You can seperate them all you want, but you still need quality teachers.

I do agree with some minor seperation as I said earlier, and maybe even seperating boys and girls (we can teach them to interact during non academic classes), but that can only do so much.

And I don't agree with ther teacher/pupil ratio the liberals keep *****ing about. That again means nothing when teachers have SAT scores lower than 800.

Using that logic diss you have to ask your self this question. What do you call the guy who just graduated last in his class in medical school. The answer is DR. Regardless what his sat score is or was he is still DR.

[Flubber]

I agree with Mrs Tubes that the best teacher , lawyer doctor are not necessarily those that get the highest grades and they are definitely not necessarily those that scored highest on some standardized test.

But Mrs Tubes I think you overstate the negative impacts of some separation based on ability if its mixed with some random separation as well. In my conceptualization, 5 of 7 periods would be spent in a class of mixed abilities and 2 of 7 ( the most difficult subjects) would be mixed based on ability.

You don't even have to explicitly tell the kids and in some cases it might take them a while to figure it out ( since the best and worst kids in the two subjects will differ somewhat and there may be a good chunk of kids not where their peers would perceive them to be-- Some children are unexpectedly good or bad at a subject).

Ohh and Mrs Tubes, earlier you mentioned the average child and wondered who was looking out for them. The answer is EVERYBODY -- The typical teaching in a classroom of very mixed abilities is aimed just at or slightly below the abilities of the average student. The reality is that the education speed and level is probably ok for the 70-80% of students in the middle. It is reaching and challenging the top and bottom 10-15% which is the real difficult thing to do

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Flubber what you say is very acurate I do have a tendency to overstate and overinflate my beliefs. I hope to think that most kids in school today are giving the choice to be in the class as they choose. I happen to be a slightly higher then average as fas as grades go but wouldnt consider myself as very smart. I enjoyed the smarter kids in class because they more then not stated their ideas and by doing that they helped me learn.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
I enjoyed the smarter kids in class because they more then not stated their ideas and by doing that they helped me learn.

that has value . . . but you should be fair to the better students and give them a class or too that truly challenges them as well. Tutoring is fine and good but a class of the brightest can be awesome.

I had it in university once-- A 12 student seminar where by chance ( well not so much by chance since the prof was well liked) almost every student there was a dean's list student. . . It was amazing -- the level of debate and interaction was the best I ever saw and it was fun. I was less lazy than usual since I wanted to keep up wheras usually I would do just enough to have a credible shot at an A.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

University is different then Hi school and those schools under them. i say this cause at this point your now paying for your education. In regular public schools I dont think the kids need to be seperated. Im all for an honors class for the very smart kids that dont want to be in with the other students.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
University is different then Hi school and those schools under them. i say this cause at this point your now paying for your education. In regular public schools I dont think the kids need to be seperated. Im all for an honors class for the very smart kids that dont want to be in with the other students.

You see and I'm not quite for that . . I'm more for seperating students in ways that allows them all to get the best education. I just happen to think for the more difficult subjects, that is accomplished by separating by ability.

[Kidlicious]

Re: Do you support grade/discipline based segregation in schools ?

Originally posted by aneeshm
Simple question . Do you support the breaking up of students into batches based on grades and discipline ? Note that I'm not talking about the existing classes for "gifted" and "slow" learners , I'm talking about seperation ( segregation is a word with dirty associations , I used it only to attract more people to the thread ) based on grade averages and discipline .

For example , anyone with a relatively clean disciplinary record ( say for the past three months ) and whose grades are the top 33 % ( say again over the past six months , or one year ) gets to sit in a seperate class , then the next 33 % and then the next 33 % .

Yes I do, and I think most teachers do too.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
What are you gonna bust his ass for not beings as smart as the other kids?

for being lazy, not doing the work, bringing home poor grades as a result of the above,etc. Obviously if the kid just can't hack it there is no point to doing this, but your implication was that the kid didn't care and needed to be made to care.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

My point was and is if you make a kid feel stupid he will start to believe it. Why do that to any kid.
@flubber
why seperate the smart kids that dont want to be seperated?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski

@flubber
why seperate the smart kids that dont want to be seperated?

To challenge them at an appropriate level.

Remember I'm only talking a class or two and the separation would be no different than the random mixing of the other classes. So its not like they don't get to socialize with their friends.

The fact that its not cool to be smart shouldn't mean we encourage kids to underachieve

[Odin]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
What are you gonna bust his ass for not beings as smart as the other kids? I have to ride my oldest kid everyday he is adhd but still hes lazy to, cause to many people have told him hes dumb.

Your kid with ADHD shows another flaw in our education system, it makes the assumption that all kids learn in a similar way, which I, as a person with ADHD, can tell you, is utter crap. People with ADHD tend to be somewhat smarter than average, but because our schools emphasize conformity, a smart kid with ADHD, like I was, sucks in school because it is too monotonous ( I am opposed to medicating people with ADHD with drugs like Ritalin, which are way overprescribed).

Your kid has the potential to be a good student, but the educational reforms needed will never happen unless we give our schools enough money to pay for programs for people with ADHD and Asperger's that are smart; not just relagating them to "Special Education", which in my experience is just a nice, politically correct way of saying "the place for retards."