Another Iraq thread: With friends like that...

[One_Mean_Rabbit]

Anyone who really believes we purposely fired on an Ally, needs to get their heads checked. SERIOUSLY. Until the facts come out, it means nothing to debate on this. At worst, it was a complete mistake by an American Soldier and he will be reprimanded severely. At best, the driver was a complete tool and has their blood on his/her hands.

[Whaleboy]

No-one's saying you purposefully fired on them, people are just saying you're too trigger happy. Certainly the defenses offered seem to contradict the claims of the US troops themselves, esp. re. Oerdin.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
No-one's saying you purposefully fired on them, people are just saying you're too trigger happy. Certainly the defenses offered seem to contradict the claims of the US troops themselves, esp. re. Oerdin.

Actually, the journalist who was wounded is saying it was purposeful:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050306/ap_on_re_eu/italy_iraq_hostage

[One_Mean_Rabbit]

people are just saying you're too trigger happy.

Wow, that almost sounds like a stereotype Euro's accuse American's of throwing around...Are you trying to argue that we are all trigger happy, or just a few?

The autopsy shows that the guy died with ONE bullet. Not riddled with them. Also, the your Communications Minister Maurizio Gasparri, was quoted as saying...

"On the other hand, we must control — but not block — the presence of civilians and journalists, who must observe rules and behavior to reduce the risks."

Fact is, is that a warzone is a mighty mighty dangerous place to be. Her kidnapping proves that point. And in a dangerous place, you must observe the rules and procedures to remain as safe as you can be. That would include obeying any commands given by people in charge of a checkpoint.

And while I can understand you being in a hurry, it makes sense to be extra safe given the situation over there.

It appears this will have no effect on Italian troops there. That's good, because running away like the Spainards did is just silly. You investigate, you punish any wrong doings if any, you correct the mistakes made, and you keep going.

This woman is obviously either hyperactive and/or severely biased. Reading her remarks smacks of conspiracy lunatics...

[One_Mean_Rabbit]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Actually, the journalist who was wounded is saying it was purposeful:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...y_iraq_hostage

Indeed! Let's analyze some other quotes from her...

"The fact that they do everything to prevent the adoption of this practice to save the lives of people held hostages, everybody knows that. So I don't see why I should rule out that I could have been the target."

"There was no bright light, no signal." She also said the car was traveling at "regular speed."

"I remember only fire," she wrote in Il Manifesto, which fiercely opposed the war in Iraq. "At that point a rain of fire and bullets came at us, forever silencing the happy voices from a few minutes earlier."

Sgrena said the driver began shouting that they were Italian, then "Nicola Calipari dove on top of me to protect me and immediately, and I mean immediately, I felt his last breath as he died on me."

So, she was watching intently the going-ons of the checkpoint while celebrating happily? The last two paragraphs sound like she is writing a Fictional Novel!

"Suddenly, she said, she remembered her captors' words, when they warned her "to be careful because the Americans don't want you to return."

Oooooh, yes! Now we are taking the very people who kidnapped her word's for truth. Riiight.

[Whaleboy]

Wow, that almost sounds like a stereotype Euro's accuse American's of throwing around...Are you trying to argue that we are all trigger happy, or just a few?

The troops involved specifically, who are supposed to represent their nation.

The autopsy shows that the guy died with ONE bullet. Not riddled with them. Also, the your Communications Minister Maurizio Gasparri, was quoted as saying...

My communications minister?

There's been an autopsy already?

Fact is, is that a warzone is a mighty mighty dangerous place to be. Her kidnapping proves that point. And in a dangerous place, you must observe the rules and procedures to remain as safe as you can be. That would include obeying any commands given by people in charge of a checkpoint.

Which is saying absolutely nothing, since it presumes the American's account of events and not the Italians, whereas we are discussing which one is true, so in effect your conclusion is little more than your premise .

because running away like the Spainards did is just silly

So how was the Spanish withdrawal "silly"?

This woman is obviously either hyperactive and/or severely biased. Reading her remarks smacks of conspiracy lunatics...

Elaborate?

[PLATO]

Here are some facts for thought:

The paper that this journalist works for has been very outspoken against the war.

This particular reporter has been very anti-American in her reporting.

The checkpoint was manned by kids following the normal procedure for vehicles approaching a checkpoint.

Those that are looking for a conspiracy here may find it in Al Capone's vault.

[Dis]

I don't think you can believe either side at this point. Both sides will bias the story to make their side look better.

What pisses me off is you commies automatically go against the U.S. You believe the Italians version without a shred of proof.

I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around. The real story is somewhere in the middle of both versions.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Which is saying absolutely nothing, since it presumes the American's account of events and not the Italians, whereas we are discussing which one is true, so in effect your conclusion is little more than your premise .

That is NOT the official Italian account. It is one of a VERY anti-American reporter.

If you believe reporters that are on the extreme on these things then...Welcome to Fox News!!

Or does the biased belief only lean to the left?

[DanS]

I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around.

I don't know how you can be sure of this. I'm inclined to belive our boys rather than the reporter, but as I understand it, the investigation is preliminary in any event.

[One_Mean_Rabbit]

The troops involved specifically, who are supposed to represent their nation.

Pretty broad brush there...It's cool, I am just glad that Americans don't have a monopoly on stereotyping...

My communications minister?

Italy's...

Doctors said he was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4323209.stm

Which is saying absolutely nothing, since it presumes the American's account of events and not the Italians, whereas we are discussing which one is true, so in effect your conclusion is little more than your premise

Actually, it's pretty much parroting what Italy's Communication Minister said...

So how was the Spanish withdrawal "silly"?

It was due to an ultimatum by terrorists. This is pretty basic.

Elaborate?

Already showed by quoting her directly.

[One_Mean_Rabbit]

Here are some facts for thought:

That's a wild assumption that some on here are actually thinking. Some of the questions and statements hear would make any sane person suscpicious that there is any real thinking going on.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by One_Mean_Rabbit


That's a wild assumption that some on here are actually thinking. Some of the questions and statements hear would make any sane person suscpicious that there is any real thinking going on.

So true...so very true.

[One_Mean_Rabbit]

I'm inclined to belive our boys rather than the reporter, but as I understand it, the investigation is preliminary in any event.

While I would like to believe ours over all other facts, there are several instances of some of our boys acting wrong. So, until there is an investigation, no one really knows. However, given the few facts already out, it doesn't seem like the troops saw who is was, and then decided to assassinate them...

As any good conspirationalist can tell you, if we wanted her dead, she wouldn't be around telling stories anymore. It's much easier to lie about a situation when the supposed victim isn't alive telling her side.

[Giancarlo]

The conspiracy theories on this forum amuse me. I don't think the Italians will withdraw because of this, because I think the US version of events is accurate. Again I reiterate if I was a hostage I would be quite shaken and not look out the windows...

Thanks for the laugh, commies. Don't quit your day job.