Another Iraq thread: With friends like that...

[Dis]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The truth has come out and it looks like the driver really was to blame. There was a check point, the speed limit was 10 mph, and the driver tried to go throughat 55mph without stopping. Marked vehicles get to drive through check points but they were driving an unmarked vehicle plus signs were posted in both English and Arabic plus warning shots were fired and still the driver didn't stop. This sucks but all of you who couldn't wait to blame the Americans sure should have waited until all the facts were in.

maybe the speed limit should have been in Italian

[Giancarlo]

I'll take oerdin's word for this one... I want to see more on this... I wasn't jumping on the apolyton bandwagon to blame americans for it.

And it looks like the middle east is getting more and more stable.. looks like Bush was right afterall?

[Dinner]

There is a huge problem with car bombers blowing themselves up at check points plus there is also a problem of smugglers/gun runners trying to run check points. You don't know who is the car bomber and who isn't so you assume everyone trying to run the check point is a car bomber since that is the only safe thing to do.

It's a tragedy but the driver really is to blame. It's a war zone so you need to stay alert for things like signs instructing you what to do at check points, pay attention for hand and arm signals, and for god's sack when they fire a warning shot STOP! It's common sense.

[MarkG]

oerdin,
which are the facts? according to whome?

Sgrena said "there was no bright light, no signal, and at a certain point, from one side, a firestorm erupted."

also

Sgrena said the driver began shouting that they were Italian

Suddenly, she said, she remembered her captors' words, when they warned her "to be careful because the Americans don't want you to return."

[Giancarlo]

So she was the driver? As far as I'm concerned when I'm sitting in the passenger seat I'm not paying attention to the road.

[Sandman]

How do you know that the car was going at 55mph?

[MarkG]

from the US Army statement

"When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

how can you honestly that you killed the passengers of a speeding (according to you) car while aiming at the car engine?

[Giancarlo]

I'd rather wait and see the facts, before I jump on the blame america syndrome here in apolyton.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
So she was the driver?

nope

As far as I'm concerned when I'm sitting in the passenger seat I'm not paying attention to the road.

have you ever been a passenger in car while being in a war zone and minutes after being freed from captivity? if yes, where you looking at the road at the time

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by MarkG
nope

As far as I'm concerned when I'm sitting in the passenger seat I'm not paying attention to the road.

have you ever been a passenger in car while being in a war zone and minutes after being freed from captivity? if yes, where you looking at the road at the time

No.. I would be avoiding the windows actually.. it is actually called common sense.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
I'd rather wait and see the facts, before I jump on the blame america syndrome here in apolyton.

i'm not "blaming america" i just dont understand what "facts" has oerdin seen to decide that it was the driver's fault....

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
No.. I would be avoiding the windows actually.. it is actually called common sense.

you're apparently not war-journalist material

[jasev]

I'm just wondering... we know these facts because the passengers were italian agents and a journalist. How many times could have this happened before? I mean, how many innocent civilians could have died... and "the driver was to blame"?

By the way, I just can't believe that a special agent would have ignored the signals of a military control in a war zone, specially if the soldiers are supposed to be allies. That would be quite stupid. I'd like to hear his version, but sadfully the italian government won't allow him to talk to the press.

I don't believe the conspiracy theory, but I think the american soldiers in Iraq are constantly frightened and see the enemy everywhere, so they tend to shoot way too easy.

[One_Mean_Rabbit]

And it looks like the middle east is getting more and more stable.. looks like Bush was right afterall?

Heh, isn't that for another thread entirely? Yes, we know Egypt has made steps toward democracy...

Egypts open elections up

Palestinians have had elections

Palestinian Election

Israel has made dramatic concessions

Israel's concessions

Syria is leaving Lebanon

Syria discusses withdrawl

Libya has given up WMA's

Libya's steps toward freedom

Afganistan and Iraq have had elections according to our timetables.

ALL 26 NATO nations have promised to train Iraqii troops.

Yeah, I would say these last 4 years have been pretty influential in the Middle East. Nice job America.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MarkG
oerdin,
which are the facts? according to whome?

The facts according to a source likely not suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. If you have some paranoid need to believe that the Americans deliberately fired on the Italians as the Commie official says, you might want to find another source.