Rugby - Hands Off, Wattle!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Finbar - check out Jerry Guscotts latest column over on BBC Sport. He makes some interesting points about the captaincy now Robbo is out crocked. I was also intrigued by his point that 'everything probably looks all right on the training paddock'.

I must be dreaming. I could've sworn I read his column earlier today and he plumped for Dawson as captain even though he wasn't sure of a place in the team. Maybe I read someone else's column. It's the sort of stupid thing Zinzan would say except he's still banging on about picking over-the-hill #8s for the Lions tour. I'd've thought Corry was the stand-out choice. And it doesn't matter how little a captain says, it's what he says and when he says it that matters. I doubt that J**** ever uttered more than a couple of sentences at a time on the field. But they'd have been to the point, full of expletives, and his players got the point. Most importantly, they effectively played for him because (a) they totally respected him; and (b) he led them from the front.

John Eales would have been one of the quietest individuals to take the rugby field and he was a fine captain. He struggled to adapt his personality to the job early on but found a way. Again, he had his players' respect, and he led from the front.

Vote 1 Corry. It's a no-brainer.

I wonder what he meant by the training paddock line.

Oh it's also worth catching Umaga's comments about the Lions. A liberal sprinkling of 'awesomes' countered by a total self belief they will stuff them. he might be talking up the Celts but he knows full well unless English forwards hit form and dominate the pack that NZ will walk it.

At this point in time, I'd imagine that G. Henry and the ABs are giggling. While, at the same time, they would acknowledge your last point. But, if things stay pretty much as they are with the NH player unit, it will be very interesting to see what Clive can achieve with them. Can he lift them?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar


Except that refs call the Wallabies gold. "Hands off, gold!". No rugby nation is referred to by the refs as wattle. So we're stuck with a meaningless thread title for 500 frigging posts! Cal, you should petition Ming to amend the thread title.

I don't think it's meaningless - we all know what colour wattle is, who cares if the rest of the forum is confused! Whether a ref would actually say it or not is immaterial - it's meant to be funny!

Besides, gold is up next.

[Havak]

Just a quick post to say Cozza got the skippers armband.

Finally a selection decision I agree with whole heartedly!

Leon Lloyd (Tigers Centre/Wing) has also been drafted into the 30. Bit of an enigma is Lloydy - bags of talent, really nippy and strong as an Ox. But never quite realised the huge potential he had. Scored a superb try to win us the 2001 European cup and broke into England the same year. He then took a horrendous challenge aginst Bristol in 2002 (ten minutes before they could stretcher him off the field) and has never been the same since. Ultimately given he prefers 13/14 which is exactly the same as Smith covers I cannot see him being selected - Smith is the younger and better man IMO.

Nine Tigers named in the 30. I think the club is doing it's bit for England!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


I don't think it's meaningless - we all know what colour wattle is, who cares if the rest of the forum is confused! Whether a ref would actually say it or not is immaterial - it's meant to be funny!

But it's not authentic! What do you think this is? A Rugby L***** thread where near enough is good enough!?

Besides, gold is up next.

Persecution!

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak
Oh it's also worth catching Umaga's comments about the Lions. A liberal sprinkling of 'awesomes' countered by a total self belief they will stuff them. he might be talking up the Celts but he knows full well unless English forwards hit form and dominate the pack that NZ will walk it.

A couple of days ago the NZRU published a rather comprehensive series of guidelines regarding the eligibility of players for AB selection over the June-July period. Many with conflicts in S12 finals, NZ Maori games, U21's (touring Aus(?) at the time) or in matchups against the PI's (touring NZ IIRC) wouldn't be eligible.
I don't necessarily disagree with Professor Umaga's expectation of the outcome but we mightn't be able to field anywhere near as many big name players as we might've hoped.

Originally posted by Caligastia

Besides, gold is up next.

We're going to need more synonyms!

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon


A couple of days ago the NZRU published a rather comprehensive series of guidelines regarding the eligibility of players for AB selection over the June-July period. Many with conflicts in S12 finals, NZ Maori games, U21's (touring Aus(?) at the time) or in matchups against the PI's (touring NZ IIRC) wouldn't be eligible.
I don't necessarily disagree with Professor Umaga's expectation of the outcome but we mightn't be able to field anywhere near as many big name players as we might've hoped.

I don't know what they're on about. The S12 grand final is May 28th. The first Lions test match is June 25th. No one under serious consideration for the ABs' test team would be released to play any Maori games - if there are any around the period - and I can't think of an AB who would be eilgible to play U21. Last but not least, if the PIs are going to tour New Zealand, they wouldn't be competing with the Lions tour so there's no likelihood of availability conflicts. What on earth are they talking about?

[ravagon]

I knew I should've read that article a little better. The U21's are in Argentina - It's the AB juniors touring Aus.

The S12 reference I have absolutely no idea about but the AB's vs Fiji games apparently conflict with both NZ Maori vs Lions and a 'provincial team' vs Lions fixtures - with the AB's apparently losing out in those cases.
If I understood correctly the provinces are supposed to be able to field full strength sides for any Lions matches, regardless of other commitments - presumably with consequences regarding selection for the AB's or any of the other teams (juniors, U21s) with matches held at the same time.

It's all rather confusing but from the tone I thought it might've all come up as a consequence of concerns over the last 6N round - wrt Leicester bench-warmers in particular ...

[Havak]

Vote 1 Corry. It's a no-brainer.

Interesting to see some poster on the BBC boards objecting because he is not experienced as a skipper. That’s interesting because he was club captain at Bristol before joining us seven years ago – and also because he has led Tigers out on many occasions when Jonno was absent. It almost makes you think these posters on the BBC boards don’t know their stuff?

Anyway Cozza is getting some heavyweight support now he has been named, his club skipper weighing in with:

“When Jason got injured I knew he (Corry) would be the main contender, I'm happy for him, He's a solid citizen, the kind of man you want in a tight situation, especially on your side. 'Coz' has done things on the field that have been inspirational.

He dislocated his left elbow against Gloucester (on 2 January). I saw him in the physio's room and all he wanted to do was get back on that field again. He didn't want to give away a grimace because he didn't want the rest of the boys to see him in pain. That's the type of bloke he is

People get wrapped up in the glory and honour of captaincy, but it's not so great when you're not winning. People have this perception that as a captain you give these huge Shakespearian speeches. But the speeches are only part of it, there's a whole load of other things to do.

With the job comes the expectation, it's natural but he will be able to handle it."

As for whether Clive can lift the Lions the first taste we get of that will be this weekend. I’m afraid the Irish are being a little naughty now the Slam is in their sites and O’Driscoll has been pulled from the game as a precaution (because the poor dear took a heavy tackle last weekend apparently). The flip side of this is that Ollie Smith comes in for him so Finbar will finally get a chance to see the lad above club level.

Ollie is excited saying “Tana Umaga was one of my idols when I was younger. A good performance could help me in several ways. It's an opportunity for England coach Andy Robinson to see me in a step up from the Zurich Premiership. It's also an opportunity to show the Lions management what I've got”.

And at the same time Sir Clive is saying “I'm particularly looking forward to seeing how young Ollie Smith does against Umaga, who is a proven international, while Smith is still trying to make his mark there.”

The lad is therefore in with a chance of a lions berth – which begs the question why is he not starting for England?

but we mightn't be able to field anywhere near as many big name players as we might've hoped.

As with Finbar I don’t get this - surely the first XV takes absolute priority for calling on players over all other sides?

Kaino is an U21 isn’t he? Although he very much looks to me like he can make a place in the first XV his own.

It's all rather confusing but from the tone I thought it might've all come up as a consequence of concerns over the last 6N round - wrt Leicester bench-warmers in particular ...

It’s early here and my brain is probably not working (only one coffee fueling it right now) but I have to say I don’t get this? From AB selection to the England coach leaving Tigers shining pine? I’m confused!! (not unusual in itself).

*edit* Good grief - Andy Titterall finally gets a game of rugby - as hooker for the NH side!!

[ravagon]

Heh. I meant in regard to your coaches, er, 'reaction' to having several of his players sitting on the England bench twiddling their thumbs.
The NZRU may be trying to pre-empt a similar, ah, dissagreement?

Yikes! I'll look forward to finbar's report on the Blues vs Reds game. It sounds like the banana-eating surrender monkeys nearly beat us on our home turf.
Ouch.
Still, at least the good guys won in the end.

[Havak]

AH I understand now - it was probably the second coffee that let me do so. I'd been thinking England when I should have been thinking Tigers.

Nice to see Spencer sealing that game - should raise his price no end for his move to the UK in August.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
The S12 reference I have absolutely no idea about but the AB's vs Fiji games apparently conflict with both NZ Maori vs Lions and a 'provincial team' vs Lions fixtures - with the AB's apparently losing out in those cases.

I don't see how the NZ Maori match is relevant. I haven't known a recent NZ Maori team to contain any players who were, at the time, All Blacks. If anything, NZ Maori is, amonst other things, a trial for young potential ABs. Carlos played for NZ Maori a couple of years ago prior to his return to the All Blacks.

Anyway, here's the Lions tour schedule:

04 Jun Bay of Plenty v Lions Rotorua
08 Jun Taranaki v Lions New Plymouth
11 Jun NZ Maori v Lions Hamilton
15 Jun Wellington v Lions Wellington
18 Jun Otago v Lions Dunedin
21 Jun Southland v Lions Invercargill
25 Jun All Blacks v Lions Christchurch
28 Jun Manawatu v Lions PalmerstonN
02 Jul All Blacks v Lions Wellington
05 Jul Auckland v Lions Auckland
09 Jul All Blacks v Lions Auckland

In amongst all that, the ABs play a one-off Test against Fiji on June 6th. So the only conflict between provincial team requirements and AB requirements would possibly involve Bay of Plenty, Taranaki, and, later on in the tour, Manawatu. Do any of those teams supply players to the All Blacks?

I've never heard of provincial teams having first call on players in front of the national team.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


Interesting to see some poster on the BBC boards objecting because he is not experienced as a skipper. That’s interesting because he was club captain at Bristol before joining us seven years ago – and also because he has led Tigers out on many occasions when Jonno was absent. It almost makes you think these posters on the BBC boards don’t know their stuff?

I was reading the forum the other day. Most were punting for Corry.

The flip side of this is that Ollie Smith comes in for him so Finbar will finally get a chance to see the lad above club level.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
Yikes! I'll look forward to finbar's report on the Blues vs Reds game. It sounds like the banana-eating surrender monkeys nearly beat us on our home turf.
Ouch.
Still, at least the good guys won in the end.

The Blues got out of jail in a big way. The Reds were unrecognisable from last week with strong discipline, tough defence and some good cohesive attacking rugby. The Blues dominated possession and camped in the Reds' half for most of the first half. They trooped off at half time down 0-3. They were still down 3-10 with about ten minutes to go but a couple of Reds' errors and some Carlos magic brought them a clutch of very quick tries. Even then, the Reds hit back in the dying seconds with another try of their own. The Blues would be heaving a sigh of relief, the Reds would consider themselves stiff.

Brumbies 20 -d- Bulls 18

Big effort from the Bulls against an even more depleted (than last week) Brumbies outfit, losing Gerrard before the match to add to the already missing Gregan, Giteau and Mortlock. A couple of the Brumbies youngsters on the field and on the bench are still on development contracts. The Bulls played a surprisingly expansive game with some dynamic running from their young black wingers, backed up by their typically mammoth pack. The Brumbies, as depleted as they were, just had a touch too much class with Larkham and Rathbone in fine form. If and when they get their backline back, they will be devastating.

[Havak]

Yes most recognised he was the obvious choice - I was picking on the Bath fan who posted suggesting Grewcock instead.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak

Kaino is an U21 isn’t he? Although he very much looks to me like he can make a place in the first XV his own.

Kaino is now twenty one.