Rugby - Hands Off, Wattle!

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Seems to me that whomever wins the 6 Nations this year will almost do so by default. The Welsh are undefeated, but they're suspect, as they've already shown in the series, and as Scotland underlined in the second half. I've watched nearly all the games and, to my mind, the only team of real quality is France, and even they are suspect!

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Originally posted by MOBIUS
BTW, I noticed Jonny Wilkinson has injured himself again

Mmmmm. Shame. One can't imagine him on the Lions tour.

[MOBIUS]

Yeah, it's true. We all know the Northern teams cannot hold a candle to the Southern ones - except when they have a 'suspect' day...

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So Tamerlin's Baby has been cited for the head butt on O'Driscoll. Not surprised. I have absolutely no idea what he thought he was doing diving into the side of the ruck like that. It seemed to be for no other purpose than to ram O'Driscoll with his head. A moment of madness.

And it looks like Pat Howard might finish up head coach at Leicester. I've always had a lot of time for him. I'll be very interested to see how he shapes up.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
We were just 15 players and had a neat total of 0 experienced props and 0 second rowers. We played with a hooker as tighthead prop (well, he's been playing prop several times now since I tend to get the hooker jersey everytime) and an ex-winger as loosehead. It's his second match as a prop and doesn't want to go back playing in the backs. That's a smart guy . We played a number 8 as lock and a center. The center behaved much better as a lock than as a back by the way. And our pack, although lightweight, managed to push back theirs a lot. That's a real pleasure, particularly when the captain (me) had seen that they were weak in mauls and said to put pressure there at half time. It paid. My throws in lineouts were abysmal in the late second half, but we're used to that too.

Too much more of the musical chairs and that English lineup you posted not so long ago mightn't seem so funny anymore?
It is nice when things work out though.


Barry may've gotten away without being cited. Nonu wasn't so lucky in the 'Canes clash with the Sharks. One odd tackle that apparently left him on top of the tackled player gave him a week suspension.
On the bright side however, given that the game in the RSA was on a Friday and that their next encounter won't be until this Saturday, he doesn't actually miss anything at all.


I suppose it goes without saying that the citizens of the rugby thread are now united in their hopes for a Welsh Grand Slam?

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Originally posted by ravagon
I suppose it goes without saying that the citizens of the rugby thread are now united in their hopes for a Welsh Grand Slam?

Methinks not. Methinks the disenchanted Pom in our midst will be crossing his vice-like, front-rower's fingers for les grenouilles to take the comp. Or, at a pinch, the Paddys.

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Just checked out the timetable for the final round of 6N matches:

March 19, 2005
RBS Six Nations
Italy v France 13:00
Wales v Ireland 15:30
England v Scotland 18:00

Phew! The important ones are first- and second-up. Presumably England was scheduled to close the tournament against Scotland because the organisers, in their wisdom, all those months ago, assumed England trying to win their first match and stop Scotland's grand slam would be a crowd-puller.

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Originally posted by ravagon
Barry may've gotten away without being cited. Nonu wasn't so lucky in the 'Canes clash with the Sharks. One odd tackle that apparently left him on top of the tackled player gave him a week suspension.
On the bright side however, given that the game in the RSA was on a Friday and that their next encounter won't be until this Saturday, he doesn't actually miss anything at all.

Which, yet again, reduces the whole disciplinary process to a joke. It has happened before. The problem is suspending players for periods of time rather than matches. Nonu's suspension was for a spear tackle. I didn't see the match. But I saw Barry's off-the-ball headshot on Rathbone. It's incredible that he wasn't cited.

Rathbone is busily playing down the incident, while busily bagging Bok rugby, saying they don't have the depth of talent to operate another S12 franchise. He also says he thinks Perth is better placed than any new Bok franchise. Of course, they're not. They are facing exactly the same problem the new Bok franchise will face. Rathbone's opinion is coloured by the fact that he remains a potential recruit for Perth. Though I'd wager a considerable sum he'll stay with the Brumbies.

[Havak]

I'm back - and I survived a heavy weekend. Work of course was waiting to ambush me with all sorts so I'll have to catch up later.

I will say that it is fair to say I would prefer either of France or Ireland to lift the trophy - I think Wales have been made to look good in a very poor tournament. All of NZ is licking it lips at the thought of Rokocoko running at those slight Welsh wingers who cannot tackle!!

And Henson - thoroughly proving he was a one game wonder for me.

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Of course you will have caught up with Plank's problems of last weekend? Admitting to calling the black Cats winger "a black (INSERT NOUN OF CHOICE)"? (At least I assume that's what he said. The actual phrase hasn't been revealed) What a nong. He'll cop heaps for it and fair enough, too. Meanwhile, DeWet Barry's quite deliberate off-the-ball headshot on Rathbone is ignored. Sigh.

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Originally posted by Havak
I think Wales have been made to look good in a very poor tournament.

Well, yes. Once Scotland remembered how to play very basic rugby in the second half, they had the Welsh struggling. Of course Wales ran in six tries (or however many it was) in the first half. The Scots kicked the ball to them at every opportunity and fell off every tackle they attempted. In the second half, with the Scots retaining possession and using their forwards, the Welsh didn't have much of an answer. If only les grenouilles had a concentration span longer than thirty minutes! They can outrun the Welsh and batter with their forwards and defend!

[Havak]

Plank a racist and being done for it? Does he know where he has signed – the most sectarian place in the UK where such things have very serious consequences!!!!

Incidentally I lip read him calling Austin a ‘Pommy B******’ in the ACT game in 2001 and they gave him a medal for that. Double standards?

You don't elbow in the face a player, particularly when he's not got the ball and kicked it a long time ago.

You do if you are a Wasp. O’Connor has a nasty side to his game that has become more prominent since he became an International.

That said there is no place of the field for ‘Glasgow Kisses’ either so Benoit Baby should have been straight red carded too.

Now we can just hope the Welsh lose one match and France can still win the tournament.

Why? They haven’t played well enough for the title to mean anything – the game against Ireland being the only exception.

It’s either a Welsh slam (may the lord help us) or Ireland to absolutely trounce them and take the title (need a 25 point margin I believe?). Ireland are more than capable of doing so – and the Welsh are certainly chokers.

Italy to also spring a surprise? Not unless the back division learns how to play rugby.

Scotland? Lets hope not.

I thought the ref was very ordinary, too.

Spreadbury yes? Not highly rated here.

What has Ellis done to offend the coach? Replaced yet again, and, again, with little gain.

And yet is named to start again. Strange stuff from AR.

What about poor Balshaw – all the hard work done and then trying to score with his knee?

Hasn’t DeWet Barry lost his Bok berth Finbar? I recall they actually played rugger in November up here rather than all out wrestling.

And it looks like Pat Howard might finish up head coach at Leicester. I've always had a lot of time for him. I'll be very interested to see how he shapes up.

Interesting scenario all around. Pat has said he plans to head back to noncultureville in June 2006 so it’s a one year appointment on face value – not something the club is known for.

Wells joins the RFU Academy as a coach – note that is not Robinsons team but the youngsters selected for special coaching (Smith came from it last season) – so I think AR needs to watch his back.

I think the thing that pleased me most about England last weekend was Corry. Not only was he the best man on the pitch (and man of the match) but the post match interview showed his pedigree as he was ‘fairly satisfied’.

Para-phrased:

“We made a small step up this game. But we wanted to make a big one. We will have to work hard to try to make a big step up in the next game”.



Much more realistic than the coach and his predecessors previous nonsense in interviews post match.

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Originally posted by Havak
Plank a racist and being done for it? Does he know where he has signed – the most sectarian place in the UK where such things have very serious consequences!!!!

I'd be surprised if he's racist. Or he's had ample opportunity to reveal it before now if he were. I suspect it was a stupid sledge in the heat of battle. I saw him interviewed tonight. He's devastated, and not because he was caught out. He owned up. Nathan Gray was the one being accused. Plank has learned a very hard, humiliating lesson.

Incidentally I lip read him calling Austin a ‘Pommy B******’ in the ACT game in 2001 and they gave him a medal for that. Double standards?

No. He was rewarded for honesty. He told the truth.

It’s either a Welsh slam (may the lord help us) or Ireland to absolutely trounce them and take the title (need a 25 point margin I believe?). Ireland are more than capable of doing so – and the Welsh are certainly chokers.

Ireland need to win by 13 points according to the BBC:

Needing to overcome a points difference of -25, Ireland can still win the Six Nations if they beat Wales in Cardiff.

But they need to win by 13 points - though France can still pip them if they beat Italy by 42 points or more.

If Ireland beat Wales by one point then France would need to beat Italy by 53 points to retain their title.

I think it depends which Ireland turns up. Which is the story of much of the 6N this year.

Hasn’t DeWet Barry lost his Bok berth Finbar? I recall they actually played rugger in November up here rather than all out wrestling.

I think he was on the Bok bench last time I saw him. But it's not en masse Bok S12 savagery. It's only Rathbone who is being heavily targeted, for obvious and fairly petty reasons. Still, he's a tough chap, he's not complaining. Just, this time, consigned to the bench for the rest of the game with a throat injury from an off-the-ball headshot that was captured perfectly on several TV cameras. Sigh.

Interesting scenario all around. Pat has said he plans to head back to noncultureville in June 2006 so it’s a one year appointment on face value – not something the club is known for.

I read an interesting theory on the BBC rugby forum: Neil Back has squeezed out Wells with eyes for the job after Howard leaves. Personally, I suspect the paddock is being ploughed in order to plant J****. Can you tell me why Wells would quit like (and when) he has? Or didn't he ever see it as a long term job?

Much more realistic than the coach and his predecessors previous nonsense in interviews post match.

I think Corry's selection as captain is the one very bright light in a very dim - largely thanks to the coach - England season thus far.

[Havak]

I suspect it was a stupid sledge in the heat of battle

I know sledging is seen as much more part of the game in Australia but it was a suicidal choice of sledge. It would certainly see him get a huge ban here (probably six months) – lets see what the ARU does.

Stick with Sledges like Bulldog Waugh’s – no one cares if you call a player a *** **** in the heat of battle.

Better warn him to bone up on slang words for Catholics and Protestants in Ulster and make sure he never ever uses any of them.

No. He was rewarded for honesty. He told the truth.

Except Austin isn’t a Pom – he is from the Wirral (separate race altogether).

I think it depends which Ireland turns up. Which is the story of much of the 6N this year.

Thanks for clearly up the permutations Finbar.

Oh they are up for this one I think. And for me Ireland have a better side than Wales except on their very worst day. France outplayed them up front and I simply don’t see Wales doing the same.

Plus it only takes a referee to finally police Wales on the back foot law and they are stuffed.

an off-the-ball headshot that was captured perfectly on several TV cameras. Sigh.

Another blind citing official?

Can you tell me why Wells would quit like (and when) he has? Or didn't he ever see it as a long term job?

I have heard that same rumour about Backy – and more besides. At the moment Jonno is laying groundwork to reduce expectation that he will automatically go into coaching (or with Tigers at all).

Running through it a person at a time Jonno is taking a whole year off and going to NZ for approx six months with his Kiwi wife. Whether he will be receptive to the offers he will certainly get down there only time will tell. I do not like the idea of a generation of All Blacks forwards coached by Martin! He is staying on the Tigers Selection committee and will give input whenever he is around – so he is keeping ties to the club. Naturally we want the prodigal back but I also think there is a motivational/headology role for him with England that would help them greatly . I wish him well whatever he decides – fifteen years of service means he has done more than we could ever have asked for Tigers.

Backy is stepping up to be defence/co-forwards coach under Howard. It is certainly being played so that it is in his hands to be the main man after Pat leaves. Whether it happens or not I would not like to say. Did he deliberately drive for Wells to go – it is possible I guess but I find it hard to believe.

Wells as noted is joining the RFU Academy coaching team. The club says he left for that reason and some vague ‘personal’ reasons. It is that latter point that may support the pushed by Senior players scenario.

What bothers me is than Tigers are not Brumbies. Our senior players have influence but are not all powerful. Deano went not because the players were complaining he was not keeping up with the latest England coaching techniques (though apparently they did so complain) but because he refused the Committees move to limit his remit as DoR so that he could not single handedly sign players on long term deals.

So if I have to make a call I would say Wells is moving on because he fancies a punt at the big England job and hopes to leave Tigers with an excellent record to springboard from.

Genoa comes highly recommended. The residents are very reserved from my experience of Italians and were almost universally very helpful to a bunch of tourists who spoke very little Italian. A very different drinking culture with Café/bars and Ristorante based night life but enjoyable never the less. The few ‘pubs’ they have they have got badly wrong in a very amusing way – check out the Britannia pub if you ever go to the city. We also popped down to Camogli on the Sunday for some sun and seaside atmosphere. I really enjoyed it. But I have to confess I only found that red on a wine list once – and got voted down in favour of a Sardinian red of all things.

I’ll have to hunt down that wine in the UK.


Changing tack entirely some extremely bad news out of Tigers yesterday. One of our young props Matt Hampson, whilst away training with England U-21, has suffered what is reportedly an extremely serious neck injury (he has had to have several operations to re-align his neck and remains in ICU). Details are vague but it is apparently lifestyle threatening not just career threatening.

It has prompted the England senior side (at the behest of Cozza apparently) to auction their shirts after the Scotland game to raise money for his recuperation. Ignoring the obvious jokes about how little they are worth right now lets hope they raise shed loads for them regardless? It is easy to forget what a dangerous game rugby can be. All the best Matt.

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Originally posted by Havak
I know sledging is seen as much more part of the game in Australia but it was a suicidal choice of sledge. It would certainly see him get a huge ban here (probably six months) – lets see what the ARU does.

Apparently it's up to SANZAR in the first instance. The NSWRU and ARU have been told to hold off until SANZAR deals with it. There's talk that the NSWRU might tear up his contract regardless. Or the balance of it anyway, the rest of this season. Thus far, Ulster have declined to comment.

EDIT. In a bizarre twist, the victim of the racial slur and one of his teammates are continuing to claim that Nathan Gray, not Plank, uttered the words. They accused him straight after the match, Gray vehemently denied it, and Plank put his hand up accepting responsibility. Gray's management has written to the Cats to warn them of defamation action if the two players continue their public claims against Gray. How very bizarre.

Stick with Sledges like Bulldog Waugh’s – no one cares if you call a player a *** **** in the heat of battle.

Well, he used the same noun as Phil Waugh. His adjectives were the problem: "leave it alone, you stinking black"

Better warn him to bone up on slang words for Catholics and Protestants in Ulster and make sure he never ever uses any of them.

I think it will be a long time before he opens his mouth on the paddock again. He's utterly devastated. A moment of utter madness.

Except Austin isn’t a Pom – he is from the Wirral (separate race altogether).

The jersey! The jersey!

Oh they are up for this one I think. And for me Ireland have a better side than Wales except on their very worst day. France outplayed them up front and I simply don’t see Wales doing the same.

Ireland have disappointed me through most of the 6N. They were crap against you - and if ever they were going to be up for a game it would have been against you - and crap against France for most of the game. France more than outplayed them up front, particularly in the first half. Ireland are relying far too much on O'Driscoll. I haven't seen much to suggest they can beat a confident Wales.

Backy is stepping up to be defence/co-forwards coach under Howard. It is certainly being played so that it is in his hands to be the main man after Pat leaves.

I'd've thought they were screamingly obvious stepping stones.

Wells as noted is joining the RFU Academy coaching team. The club says he left for that reason and some vague ‘personal’ reasons. It is that latter point that may support the pushed by Senior players scenario.

I think so.

What bothers me is than Tigers are not Brumbies. Our senior players have influence but are not all powerful.

And speaking of senior Brumbies players, I've already noted how they are currently revealing true leadership skills on the field. Larkham, Finegan and George Smith have literally carried a novice - thanks to injury - backline to three wins out of three. Leading them, encouraging them, protecting them, drawing outstanding performances out of absolute novices, some of them still on development contracts. Your coach and the ex-interim skipper with a broken thumb would do well to watch tapes of the matches to see leadership at work.

So if I have to make a call I would say Wells is moving on because he fancies a punt at the big England job and hopes to leave Tigers with an excellent record to springboard from.

Mmmm. Given your earlier point about the "personal" reasons for leaving, I suspect it could be a mixture of getting out before he was pushed, and taking a step towards higher office. A bit of a win-win for him.

and were almost universally very helpful to a bunch of tourists who spoke very little Italian.

They are, on the whole, a very welcoming mob. I'm counting on it anyway!

A very different drinking culture with Café/bars and Ristorante based night life but enjoyable never the less. The few ‘pubs’ they have they have got badly wrong in a very amusing way – check out the Britannia pub if you ever go to the city.

Interesting observation. Italians don't have a pub culture. They sure know how to enjoy themselves, but in a very different way to, say, England and Australia, which have much in common in this area. Suffice it to say, I prefer the Italian way.

But I have to confess I only found that red on a wine list once – and got voted down in favour of a Sardinian red of all things.

You travel with heathens!

I’ll have to hunt down that wine in the UK.

You're bound to find it in the Import section of a good grog shop. And don't forget the white, the Pino Grigio.

It is easy to forget what a dangerous game rugby can be. All the best Matt.

Yes, I read about it. It's appalling. After Ben Darwin was so lucky to escape able-bodied from his mishap, I wondered how these accidents don't happen more often with the brute force energy that's expended.